Compact Hunting Switch barrel rig?

[Varminterror]

I'm considering a new rifle project:

Savage repeater action, switch barrel including .223rem/AI, maybe a .243win/AI, 284win or 7mm Dakota, and a 338class cartridge (maybe not this big, as heavy bear hunts are few and far between for me). Looking to have barrels in cartridges appropriate for mid range predators (400yrds ish) = .223rem, long range predators and mid range whitetails = 243win, long range whiteys = 7mm cartridge, and the 338 class would be a limited use barrel for a few bear hunts I can get lined out.

Looking to run 16.5-18" fluted heavy barrels, plus brakes.

Ultralight chassis, preferably folding buttstock, but not absolutely necessary. Naturally, has to be short enough to accept the short barrels, but I want it long enough to support a bipod/shooting stick (leaning towards something with a "bottom jaw" like these ugly Howa's out there.

Not necessarily looking to build a "hyperlight", just something "hyper handling". Very high demands for accuracy, but realizing I'll be sacrificing MV for these short barrels.

So I'm looking for comments/advice on this project? Cartridges to look at to perform well in a short barrel? Challenges/ideas for how to make these different lengths all feed well in a switch barrel repeater?

 

[K22]

It is a joy hunting with a light weight rifle especially if you like to do a lot of stalking / walking around which I like to do hunting ghogs.

I've have a fair amount of experience with both the 223 and 243 in the Remington Model 7 which has a 20" contour No. 1 barrel. These rifles are a joy to carry and amazingly accurate for a pencil thin barrel that shoots in the .5 to .7 moa range. I shot a fair number of ghogs with the 223 and a few white tail with the 243 but my shots have been 200 yards and under for the most part.

The bullets drop off quite a bit beyond 200 yards due to the reduce velocity in the short barrels requiring some skill to estimate hold over or scope adjustment to consistency make the shots. I prefer to stalk closer and stay in the 200 yard and under range with these rifles.

With the 223, I've found that Benchmark powder works best for me in the short barrel whereas I use Varget in my heavy varmint rifles (24 and 26" barrels)

In the 243, still using the rather slow IMR 4350 because it just shoots so accurately but the velocity really suffers.

I use these guns a lot but when I want to set up for long shots or plan to mostly sit I'll opt for one of my heavy varmint rifles - I just shoot them so much better at longer ranges. But I've got to confess - I'm moving more and more away from heavy rifles despite perhaps giving up some performance.

You may want to take a look at the Browning X bolt Stalker line - I have one in a 223 and it's a light weight rifle and very accurate mine shooting sub 1/2 moa with Benchmark and Nosler 50 BT's. I plan to give it a heavy field test this summer on some ghogs.

 

[357Mag]

Vterror -

Howdy !

Just thinking out loud......

Maybe a cartridge selection something like:
- .223 ( change bolt head as needed ) or .22-250 for performance w/ .308 bolt face
- 6.5 Creedmoor
- .308Win
- .338 Federal or .....
- .358Win

- Most of these have performance in shorter barrels, that has already been well proven
- Good areas of overlap in capabilities between each calibre and the next, when adequate consideration given to engagement range
- The .308 family of cases would simply cartridge feeding from similar magazine(s). Would help w/ reliable exraction, too.
- If need be, 4 of the above cases ( would be ) or could be formed from .308Win basic
- .22-250 + the others would use same bolt face. Supressor helps w/ muzzle blast
- A good 6.5mm cartridge would be highly versatile ( 6.5 X 47 L, 6.5X55 Swedish, 6.5 Creedmoor; et al ).... IMHO
- .358Win would cover bear, if something larger in diam than .338 Federal is desired. .358Win also good w/ cast bullets

Just thinking


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Varminterror]

I have considered chosing a "cartridge family", leaning towards the WSM/WSSM line if I do go the family route (obviously brass quality will suffer).

Two reasons I haven't leaned towards any given cartridge family, which are mostly subjective at this point...

1) I'm just not that impressed with any one given cartridge family for shorter barrel performance. The WSM/WSSM's are close to what I'm interested in, considering terms of performance, but I'm not sold on Win brass (have a .300WSM and a .243 WSSM).

2) "Cool factor": The obvious route is to go with cartridges out of a certain case family, but if I don't HAVE to do so, then I think it adds a fun extra twist to the project. Maybe feeding will eventually prove prohibitive to the point I have to pick a family, but if not, then it'll sure be a fun ride to get there!

I'm hoping to stick to the "slightly heavy for caliber" bullet weight range for each cartridge to keep my BC's up, and stay as close to 2800-2900fps as I can get (except the .223rem/AI, or maybe the .243win/AI/WSSM of course, which I expect to run faster).

 

[1sniper]

Can you even do the 7 dakota on a savage action?

 

[SEB-USA]

V,
Shorter barrels are my world.
I have: 6-284, 243 Win, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 6.5 Leopard (WSM), 284 Win, 7mm SAUM, 7WSM, 7mm Rem Mag Imp, and a 338AX (338 Lapua Imp) in XP-100's and in the MOA Maximum's with barrels from 16"-18"
Mine just don't have the butt-stock ;D
They are accurate and work well for LR too.
Think about the the MV you want to attain with each set-up and then you choose the case to get you there.
You are not looking for efficiency, but rather performance.
You are calling mid-range 400 yards, so what would you call LR with the shorter tubes?
These are all single-shots except for the 6.5-06 (non-designated Rem 700 LA).
I can also give you a good idea of MV's as well.

 

[BAT man]

Look at the Desert Tactical Arms SRS or covert model, its not a "hunting rifle" per se but i think it will cover your needs. I have one with 338 lapua, 300win and 260rem. If thats not what you want they do sell a barrel extension so you can have whatever you like chambered as long as its a standard, magnum, or lapua bolt face. Send me a pm if you have any questions or would like to see pictures.

 

[Larryh128]

You definitely need to look at a family of cartridges if you want them all to feed from the same magazine. The WSSM's do a pretty good job from a short barrel. I have never had an issue with the win brass in them and have also gone to the win brass in my 300wsm. If Lapua doesn't make it, I use Win. You really don't need a 35 unless you just want it. The 300wsm with the right bullet will be more than enough for anything on this continent. Everytime that I go to deer camp, I look at what was #16 in the world Brown bear that was no match for a 300.

 

[Varminterror]

Can you even do the 7 dakota on a savage action?

Surely you can? The 116 goes up to 338 LAP and WM, longer and bigger dia than the Dakota.

Mostly, I'm looking for a fun project rifle. Hoping to do as much of the assy as possible (pretty much HAVE to be able to do so, since I'm looking for a switch barrel. Have built a few savages, rebuilt a few rem's (short cut chambers on new barrels, installed and finish reamed the chamber by hand, none-to-perfect, but worked), not a gun builder, just a tinkerer looking for a project that will end up, hopefully, as my standby rifle for a long time to come.

I haven't settled on a Savage action (accutrigger), have been looking for a good excuse to get a Stiller Predator Repeating action (Jewel), but I'm very used to Savage triggers, and the removable boltface has been convenient for me in the past on my switch barrel single shots. I also have the barrel nut wrench for Savage, and Rem switch barrels turn me off a little.

DBM would be a perk, but a dump plate would be fine, so that's a piece that's still up in the air regarding who's bottom metal I'm going with. Bad part about the Savage factory mags is that if I go WSM, they only hold 2+1. Not cool for calling coyotes after years with an AR and 20-30rnd mags.

Other than the duracoat and camo on the stock, this won't be a typical "hunting rig".

 

[Varminterror]

You definitely need to look at a family of cartridges if you want them all to feed from the same magazine. The WSSM's do a pretty good job from a short barrel. I have never had an issue with the win brass in them and have also gone to the win brass in my 300wsm. If Lapua doesn't make it, I use Win. You really don't need a 35 unless you just want it. The 300wsm with the right bullet will be more than enough for anything on this continent. Everytime that I go to deer camp, I look at what was #16 in the world Brown bear that was no match for a 300.

So do you think the WSSM's will feed from a WSM magazine? Same bolt face is one thing, but that's a lot of extra travel for a stubby little cartridge with a steep shoulder.

 

[Varminterror]

V,
Shorter barrels are my world.
I have: 6-284, 243 Win, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 6.5 Leopard (WSM), 284 Win, 7mm SAUM, 7WSM, 7mm Rem Mag Imp, and a 338AX (338 Lapua Imp) in XP-100's and in the MOA Maximum's with barrels from 16"-18"
Mine just don't have the butt-stock ;D
They are accurate and work well for LR too.
Think about the the MV you want to attain with each set-up and then you choose the case to get you there.
You are not looking for efficiency, but rather performance.
You are calling mid-range 400 yards, so what would you call LR with the shorter tubes?
These are all single-shots except for the 6.5-06 (non-designated Rem 700 LA).
I can also give you a good idea of MV's as well.

Ideally I'm looking for something in this ballpark (lofty, but it's my starting point):

.22cf = 50grn-70grn at 3000-3200
6mm (may not include) = 85-105grn (doubt I'll ever go up to 110/115's), 2950-3150fps
7mm = 140-165grn at 2850-3100fps
30cal (may not include) = 150-180grn at 2900-3100fps
338cal = looking 250grn+ bullets, ideally 2800fps+, not sure a 338WSM will get there.

The WSM/WSSM's look like they should be able to reach these points even in short tubes. Not in love with having a .223wssm over a .223rem, but feeding a .223rem from a WSM/WSSM rifle might get tricky?

Faster/Flatter is better, but I want the high BC's and the penetrating power that the heavier for caliber bullets get. Not looking to run super slow just for some super heavy bullets (no 220's out of 30cal, no 180's out of the 7mm (unless somebody can figure out how to get me 2950fps with a 180 out of an 18" tube!)

Range, naturally, will be variable according to the given cartridge/caliber, and game I'm after. I call 400 "mid-range" because I don't have any trouble shooting that far. Long range to me, in the heavier calibers, will be 600-800yrds, I shoot over a bench or off my belly to 1000-1600, but that's a long poke with a short barrel, and the shots just don't usually happen for me in the field.

 

[SEB-USA]

Sent you a pm

 

[Surfnsailor]

I like my encore in the field. It's light , compact, and you can keep your MV up with a 24 or 26" barrel.

 

[mikeinct]

I'm liking the similar bolt face size of cartridge family best..22-250 243 win & top it off with a 308 win...I have the Savage older action, custom trigger sitting in a boyds thumbhole lam. stock...Only real hassle is to switch barrels action must be removed from the stock, scope must be removed..Ok not a real biggie but requires resighting each time...Do yourself a favor, get a one piece base & matching set of rings...I think you will want two scopes..Nice quality Say 6 to 18 for the 22-250 & the best variable you would use to hunt the other 2 barrels..Myself I use the 4.5 X 14 burris AO model...I think it would be fine on all three calibers in a walk around type gun...Good luck with your project...I'm enjoying mine...Mike In Ct

 

[stacy]

I HAVE A 22BR AND 6BR SWITCH BARREL RIG BEST COMBO I'VE PUT TOGETHER WAY BETTER BRASS LIFE AND BARREL LIFE THAN THOSE CARTRIDGES.I USE THIS SET FOR MY HUNTING NEEDS FROM DEER TO GROUNDHOGS ETC.

 

[mikeinct]

Stacy I respect your opinion & like the idea of paring the ..22 br & the 6MMbr..I own the 6br but I really prefer the 243 for GH's now..I use the 88gr flat base berger HP bullet..It carries very well to ungodly distances..football size targets are pretty easy at 600 yds on the range..In the field I use a lieca rangefinder...The 243 has a real edge over the 6br gun..trust me I've been at this a long time, that ten to 12 % increase in velocity makes getting the range so much easier. That & the impact of the hits on target..I'll put up with the brass issues..mike in ct

 

[stacy]

Mike
I also like the 243,I also have a 40XBR in a 6ppc/243Ackley swith barrel used to shoot a lot of groundhogs myself I think the coyotes has killed the groundhogs out here in northern foothills of NC.But still shoot a lot of paper groundhogs.

 

[mikeinct]

Funny..My Br gun sits in an old Rem 40X too. Built it, I don't remember how many years ago...It still shoots very well a Hart barrel.. I have to turn the necks some..Not a big deal...Still shoots Better than I can I'm sure...I burned out my 243 barrel..maybe a thousand shots using IMR 4064..Yes it is hot..What powder do you use in the 243AI ??? What kind of barrel life do you get??mike

 

[mauritz45]

i would suggest sticking with a family of cartridges. since you like the AI version, you reload.
i would go with a 20-250, a 260 or 308, and 338 federal. use a 18" fluted RV contour barrel and ultralight stock.
choose a hunting scope with 6X zoom like the Z6 swaro in ultralight rings and you can hunt everything in north america.
i couldn't choose between 260 and 308...i have and love both but they fill a similar gap.
the 20-250 is a hammer with 50 and 55gr bullets.
i dont have experience with the 338 fed, but it appears to be an excellent midbore round
this is the part of a project i enjoy most, the hunt for good info...have fun!--cam

 

[bcott]

Last year I also decided to simplify my life with a switch barrel rifle. I finally decided on the Blaser R8 because the scope mounts on the barrel, so there is never any need to "sight in" after switching barrels. There were other reasons, but that was the big one. Barrel switching takes about 4 to 6 minutes. I started with the 6.5 and then added the 223Rem. The original plan was to add the 9.3x62 in the future. The 6.5 has proven such a good game getter that the 9.3x62 might never be needed. Barrels available for the R8 include the 22/250, 243, 6mmBR to list a few. Blasers are not cheap and I sold several other firearms and scopes to fund this project. I purchased the Professional model. It has a synthetic stock. It is also the least expensive. I have been extremely happy with my choice. Carl L.