Click sound on 308 Palma brass

[6Dasher]

Hiya.

Recently noticed that when using Lapua 308 Palma brass in my Surgeon that I hear the crack of the trigger breaking and only a split second later (50ms?) the catridge going off. I'm hearing the similar in a different rifle (Sako) that both did not have this using the LR 308 cases or other barrels.

Anyone have similar experience?

 

[Preacher]

Just my thoughts, but try sizing with a small base body die and see if the problem goes away..
Seems like the Lapua cases are a bit larger at the base than some domestic cases, and will cause that problem when it's pushing the case into the chamber unless it was a Lapua based reamer that cut the chamber.. It sure won't hurt to try....

 

[STS]

Just my thoughts, but try sizing with a small base body die and see if the problem goes away..
Seems like the Lapua cases are a bit larger at the base than some domestic cases, and will cause that problem when it's pushing the case into the chamber unless it was a Lapua based reamer that cut the chamber.. It sure won't hurt to try....

a I get from reading the original post that he is having a hang fire situation and not a click on bolt opening.

 

[DHD]

Not with Lapua Palma brass, but I have with Rem URBR brass, which is also SR 308 brass. FWIW, this is noticed with Wolf SRM primers. 450 and 205M primers don't do it. Curious, as there is no change to the brass (sizing) or load, and they still shot very good groups. I know what I experienced was hang fires, but I cannot tell you why it happened in my situation. I know I do not like it though, and use other primers with those cases.

I sized some of this brass to 6.5 Creedmoor and still got hang fires with the Wolf SRM primers. I do know that the problem is not from the brass being to short as I had it pretty tight in the chamber for my fire form load. Once again, this did not happen when I reloaded with 450's and the same basic load.

Maybe it is the primers, but they work fine in 3 different gas guns.

I do use the Palma brass too, but no hang fires.

 

[holstil]

I read that is a common problem when temps start getting cooler with the small hole in the palma brass.

Jim

 

[BoydAllen]

A friend had a Cheetah Mk I that had cases made from the Rem UBR brass. In the winter with ball powder it would hang fire, and was cured by changing to CCI small rifle magnum primers.

 

[DHD]

Indeed that seems to cure the problem for me. The flash hole is standard size in my URBR brass. Palma brass is the small size. Don't know if that makes any difference, but there it is.

The Cheetah is one helluva solution to a problem I don't have. I know of a few of those rifles made by a rifle maker in Jackson SC. They seem to be hard on bullets! ;D

Back to the OP. You did not say what primer you use. I have not had a problem with 450's and they tend to be an accurate primer across the board for me. Fact is, if that was all I ever used, I would not be unhappy.

Unfortunately, I cannot help trying other stuff, which led me to the Berger 168 grain Hybrids. But that is another story.......

 

[BoydAllen]

Berger 168 grain Hybrids...best seating depth?

 

[lpreddick]

had the same problem with new brass and not seating primer deep enough. i almost believe primers can "backout" just a little in new primer pockets, esp if not uniformed, which i don't do and may have to start if above becomes a regular phenomenon. i routinely run my fingertip across seated primers to feel that little dip.

 

[Laurie]

Berger 168 grain Hybrids...best seating depth?

Boyd,
they work best for me seated into the lands. I treat Hybrids as VLDs and they perform better than trying to load them as the claimed tangent ogive 'jump tolerant' bullets that they're sold as. Nice bullet in 308W over Varget - I like them.

 

[Bart B.]

I've used Remington's .308 Win. small rifle primer brass in my Palma rifles. Every primer except one I tried when first loading them had a hang fire; even with 10 to 20 percent stronger than factory spec firing pin springs. The time between "click" and "bang" varied somewhat with temperature.

Rem. 7.5 small rifle primers worked well. Wolff magnum small rifle primers have also worked well according to others. Corky Tyson used Remington 7.5's in his Remington cases holding 48 grains of IMR4350 under Sierra 200 HPMK's putting 20 of 'em into 4 inches at 600 yards at the 1997 Nationals; set the 200-19X record with them using aperture sights.

 

[22BRGUY]

I had what sounds similar with Wolf primers

 

[Bart B.]

I had what sounds similar with Wolf primers

Which ones; magnum or standard?

 

[Bart B.]

i almost believe primers can "backout" just a little in new primer pockets, esp if not uniformed, which i don't do and may have to start if above becomes a regular phenomenon.

I've seen this happen with reduced loads in new unprepped cases approaching 10% below max safe pressures (39 to 40 grains of IMR4064 under a 168 instead of a max safe charge of 44 grains). As rimless bottleneck cases have their shoulders set back a thousandth or more when the firing pin drives them hard into the chamber shoulder, the primer backs out to the bolt face as presure builds. If there's not enough peak pressure to push the back half of the case to where the head stops against the bolt face pushing the primer back flush with the case head, the primer will stick out past the case head.

 

[DHD]

Berger 168 grain Hybrids...best seating depth?

Boyd,
they work best for me seated into the lands. I treat Hybrids as VLDs and they perform better than trying to load them as the claimed tangent ogive 'jump tolerant' bullets that they're sold as. Nice bullet in 308W over Varget - I like them.

Exactly! I tried them mag length and shorter, and got pretty ammo that shot OK. Jammed them, and magic happened. Gotta single load them but I shoot off a rest mostly so it don't matter much.

FWIW, I never have had my brass (SR 308), short as far as headspace is concerned. I tend to only bump the shoulders minimally, so my problem was not the firing pin driving the case forward. I have found my rifles like to shoot a warm load, so a light load was not an issue either. In my case, it was the type of primer. I may be able to recreate it with another type, but I have used 450's, 205M, 205, Rem 7.5, and Wolf SRM 's and only had the problem with Wolf. Not knocking them as I use alot of Wolf/PMC primers, just not in the URBR cases anymore.

 

[lpreddick]

Bart B. the "backing out" i'm referring to is after priming and BEFORE firing. i feel the primer seat and it feels to be all the way into the pocket. later, i can feel the primer very slightly out of the pocket and it will reseat and may seem snug. again, i may have to start uniforming my pockets, even though after a few firings the primers seat completely...i must be very slightly enlarging the pockets as i tend to shoot at about max pressure and have a good collection of brass whose pockets won't hold a primer. bad habit i have.

 

[Bart B.]

...i must be very slightly enlarging the pockets as i tend to shoot at about max pressure and have a good collection of brass whose pockets won't hold a primer. bad habit i have.

Some folks have swaged down .308 Win. case heads to size down primer pocket diameters. As I remember, they pushed a well lubed .308 Win. case head first into a full length sizing die in a reloading press with a rod affixed to the shell holder to mate with the inside of the case around the flash hole. Might be worth a try.

 

[6Dasher]

I could have sworn I clicked the notify button, sorry for not checking back earlier as I did not get any message.

I'm using CCI 450, both new and fired cases have it, I only necksize normally so the case should fit the chamber snugly after the first go. Firing 155 scenars that are 0.015 from the lands. I myself use a light load, 35gr N130, as I only shoot up to 200m with it. Surgeon with Jewell trigger.

The other rifle (friend) shoots moderate loads of 46.0/N150 with 155 SMKs. Same brass and primers on both, Lapua 308 Palma with CCI 450. Sako TRG with factory tigger.


The groups are good and constant, so there's nothing wrong on that end, just the noise.

 

[DHD]

I do think that what you are hearing is a slight hangfire. I was not trying to hog the thread, but I was relating my experiences with SR 308 brass (both URBR and Palma). I have never used VV powders, so I am not familar with your load. As stated earlier, I don't run light loads and I have not had the problem of hangfires with 450's.
You seem to have the common case related stuff handled (headspace not too short, primers seated tight for instance), so I can only suggest trying a heavier charge, different powder, and/or a different primer.
I did not see if you mentioned if this was a "new" thing or have you been experiencing it all along with this brass. How much have you used the Palma brass?

 

[22BRGUY]

The primers I mentioned were Small Rifle Magnums