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Cleaning with Abrasives and using Fire Lapping kits and warranty

I've got no issues with JB Bore Compound (blue label) and I do use it once in a while. Never with a brush. Patch only. Also you don't need to use a lot of it. A little goes a long way.

I'll also use Rem. 40x cleaner or I think it's called Remington bore cleaner. For us old timers it use to be called Gold Medallion. Again never with a brush. Just a patch. Again I don't use it all the time.
I have to say that to hear that you use Rem. 40X cleaner is a surprise to me. I tried to develop an understanding of just how abrasive some of the common abrasive bore cleaners are. I took a drop off the muzzle of a barrel, and turned it parallel and polished to a high shine. I took Iosso, JB blue, Flitz bore cleaner, Gold Medallion and Remington 40X and placed a small drop on of each on a piece of plate glass. I rubbed the abrasive cleaners between the polished steel and the glass. You can literally hear and feel the difference between the abrasiveness of all the cleaners. Remington 40X cleaner is like creek gravel compared to all the others. I've read here several times that JB is less abrasive than Iosso or Flitz, but my experiment clearly showed that it is more abrasive than the others. I use abrasives to clean with caution, and I will not use 40X in a barrel that is of any value to me.
I would urge anyone who is really interested in using abrasives to do the test that I did, and verify for yourself, just how aggressive the common bore cleaners are. I think you might find a few surprises that differ from the common narrative.
 
I have to say that to hear that you use Rem. 40X cleaner is a surprise to me. I tried to develop an understanding of just how abrasive some of the common abrasive bore cleaners are. I took a drop off the muzzle of a barrel, and turned it parallel and polished to a high shine. I took Iosso, JB blue, Flitz bore cleaner, Gold Medallion and Remington 40X and placed a small drop on of each on a piece of plate glass. I rubbed the abrasive cleaners between the polished steel and the glass. You can literally hear and feel the difference between the abrasiveness of all the cleaners. Remington 40X cleaner is like creek gravel compared to all the others. I've read here several times that JB is less abrasive than Iosso or Flitz, but my experiment clearly showed that it is more abrasive than the others. I use abrasives to clean with caution, and I will not use 40X in a barrel that is of any value to me.
I would urge anyone who is really interested in using abrasives to do the test that I did, and verify for yourself, just how aggressive the common bore cleaners are. I think you might find a few surprises that differ from the common narrative.

I think that might the clay carrier more than the abrasive. But I'm not an expert.

I called the makers of Flitz and they said the material in their product is so micro fine it's not even considered an abrasive.
 
You could take Flitz Barrel Cleaner and put it on a rag and hold it on a barrel spinning in a lathe at 2000 rpm for 10 minutes and it wouldn't remove a micron.

Throats move because of the fire, not abrasives. At least on a patch. I'm still trying to figure out how a brass brush could cut steel, even with a normal abrasive on it. Shoot, even bullets don't cut steel. The fire does.
Thank you sir very well stated, your response should be reposted on every barrel cleaning topic
 
The new thing apparently is the routine ( like in EVERY cleaning ) use of Thorroclean to clean barrels. Being simply Iosso in solution, therefore an abrasive, how can that not be detrimental to a barrel over time? The boys doing it swear by it, though. Perhaps they haven’t been doing it long enough to see any negative ramifications? And I’m not trying to say that there’s no appropriate time and way to use an abrasive, either.
So.....just where did you get this information?
 
I have to say that to hear that you use Rem. 40X cleaner is a surprise to me. I tried to develop an understanding of just how abrasive some of the common abrasive bore cleaners are. I took a drop off the muzzle of a barrel, and turned it parallel and polished to a high shine. I took Iosso, JB blue, Flitz bore cleaner, Gold Medallion and Remington 40X and placed a small drop on of each on a piece of plate glass. I rubbed the abrasive cleaners between the polished steel and the glass. You can literally hear and feel the difference between the abrasiveness of all the cleaners. Remington 40X cleaner is like creek gravel compared to all the others. I've read here several times that JB is less abrasive than Iosso or Flitz, but my experiment clearly showed that it is more abrasive than the others. I use abrasives to clean with caution, and I will not use 40X in a barrel that is of any value to me.
I would urge anyone who is really interested in using abrasives to do the test that I did, and verify for yourself, just how aggressive the common bore cleaners are. I think you might find a few surprises that differ from the common narrative.
Like I said, I don’t use it all the time. Same with the JB. I have a slow method of cleaning and a fast method of cleaning. So which method I use determines if I use it or not.

I do feel depending on caliber, powder etc…. You might have to use something like this to keep things in check.

I’ll play with it as you did and see what I see and what I feel. Again the way I use JB or the Rem. Clean and I’ve used them since around 1990 I haven’t wrecked a barrel with either.

Also if you read in my posts I feel sometimes shooters use an abrasive cleaner and they don’t always make sure they get it all out. This is another problem/issue. Like I said, if you don’t… you might as well have gravel in the barrel when you pull the trigger on that first round.

The point of the thread is… we have no control over how someone is cleaning and what they are cleaning with.
 
One of the biggest culprits in ruining barrels is these Disciplines that are set up so shooters have to put as many as 150 rounds down a barrel before it’s cleaned. And then the shooter has to use all sorts of draconian procedures to get it “clean”.

I have always said that the secret to keeping a barrel clean is to never let all of that crap build up. You do that the way Short Range Benchrest Shooters do. No matter how many rounds you shoot on your relay, you clean it after every target.

Even when I practice or am testing, I never shoot more than 10/15 rounds without cleaning. I never take a rifle hope dirty.

And I never use anything but Butches, a bronze brush, and patches.
 
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I've got no issues with JB Bore Compound (blue label) and I do use it once in a while. Never with a brush. Patch only. Also you don't need to use a lot of it. A little goes a long way.

I'll also use Rem. 40x cleaner or I think it's called Remington bore cleaner. For us old timers it use to be called Gold Medallion. Again never with a brush. Just a patch. Again I don't use it all the time.
Frank, glad to hear that and thank you for replying.

I do use only a patch with the JB, and after trying just about every cleaning product, I am down to using only stiff nylon brushes and Bore Tech products, mostly Eliminator.

Thanks!

Alex
 
One of the biggest culprits in ruining barrels is these Disciplines that are set up so shooters have to put as many as 150 rounds down a barrel before it’s cleaned. And then the shooter has to use all sorts of draconian procedures to get it “clean”.

I have always said that the secret to keeping a barrel clean is to never let all of that crap build up. You do that the way Short Range Benchrest Shooters do. No matter how many rounds you shoot on your relay, you clean it after every target.

Even when I practice or am testing, I never shoot more than 10/15 rounds without cleaning. I never take a rifle hope dirty.

And I never use anything but Butches, a bronze brush, and patches.

Fclass.....
 
I'll start with thanking Frank for having the pair to post this. I'm sure many egos have been hurt but the simple truth is don't let a barrel get to the extreme that you need an abrasive to get it clean. The one thing that hurts accuracy is hard carbon. Cleaning out hard carbon deposits will destroy a barrel. Shooting a hundred rounds without cleaning is going to leave hard carbon deposits. In my opinion once you have hard carbon deposits you will never get that barrel back. The required cleaning to remove hard carbon will round off the edges of the rifling and enlarge the bore. Don't let it get there. Shoot clean shoot happy!
 
Fclass.....
Different shooting sports require how, what, when etc... for cleaning. I don't necessarily agree with cleaning after a few rounds fired like the BR guys do but...

F class is different as is hi power. You don't get time to clean your gun in between relays. Same with PRS... but when you are shooting back to back days.... I don't come back to the line the next day with a dirty barrel. My barrel will be clean and ready to go.

Again I feel part of it goes back to caliber (what the barrel is chambered in) and type of powder being used. Depending on these two things it can create more fouling than what some think it will. A guy shooting a 308win. vs a guy shooting a 6CM are different.

I can't tell you how many people have said to me at a match.... hey my gun is blowing up bullets or it's not holding accuracy and my first questions are... caliber? How many rounds on the barrel? How are you cleaning it?.... then I'll right away say.... you shot it yesterday and you put a 80 or 120 rounds on it right? Answer is yes? Did you clean it last night? Usually I get is... NO. Why come back the next day with your 22CM or 6.5PRC etc... and expect the gun to shoot another 80-120 rounds for the day and the gun work for you. Guys it doesn't always work.

I'm not from the thought process of (and Jackie was touching on it in his post) shoot it till it stops shooting and then clean it. Once you get to this point... your 15 minute cleaning session might not bring the gun back. Maybe it will shoot for 15 or 20 rounds but then your back to having problems.

Doing routine cleaning is way better than letting it go. Once you let it go... it could be the devil to bring it back.

Great example and I'm done... 6.5PRC PRS shooter. Sends me pics of his barrel and I quote(barrel died early... must be bad steel. Look at all the fire cracking.) I said that's not fire cracking... that's carbon build up. How are you cleaning it? Reply is... haven't cleaned it since I put it the barrel on the gun. I asked... and how many rounds is that? 288! I told him how to clean it and go shoot it and call me back. He was decent/cool about it and did. Shot it in the match that next weekend. Won the 1200 and 1400 yard stages of the match and the gun held accuracy the whole time. Told me on the phone... I have to change my cleaning technique.
 
I'll start with thanking Frank for having the pair to post this. I'm sure many egos have been hurt but the simple truth is don't let a barrel get to the extreme that you need an abrasive to get it clean. The one thing that hurts accuracy is hard carbon. Cleaning out hard carbon deposits will destroy a barrel. Shooting a hundred rounds without cleaning is going to leave hard carbon deposits. In my opinion once you have hard carbon deposits you will never get that barrel back. The required cleaning to remove hard carbon will round off the edges of the rifling and enlarge the bore. Don't let it get there. Shoot clean shoot happy!
And as if things aren’t muddled enough……The definition of “ clean “ varies apparently as well. It appears that some consider a barrel “ clean “ only when there’s literally not an atom of carbon or copper anywhere in the barrel. From there, it goes pretty much all the way to “ good enough “.
 
I'm not from the thought process of (and Jackie was touching on it in his post) shoot it till it stops shooting and then clean it. Once you get to this point... your 15 minute cleaning session might not bring the gun back. Maybe it will shoot for 15 or 20 rounds but then your back to having problems.
Yeah.
This approach also doesn't actually save any time after the fouling has built up the first time.
And I've always assumed whoever is doing this approach must not be competing. The last thing I want is for my accuracy to drop off during a match for something i could easily prevent.
 
On gun related sites.
Ah yes, the keyboard experts. As I said a gazillion times, you should contact the manufacturer and ask. I did. Iosso is a very helpful company and I doubt they are trying to ruin your barrel. As they will tell you - different products for different situations.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but people repeating stuff they read on the internet by an "expert" drives me crazy.
 
I've used this pic a million times... cleaned with KG2 bore paste and a brush after every 25 rounds fired. It's a 7mm/284win F class barrel. Pic is at 800 rounds and this is the muzzle end of the barrel.

Should measure .277" x .284". It now measures at the muzzle end .279" x .2855". Basically a full .002" was taken out of the barrel.

View attachment 1703117
How many on here have cleaned a barrel in the way that is described in this post to have the outcome like this?
 
When powder coating was becoming popular, people were grabbing everything they could to coat bullets. The cheaper the better. Harbor Freight flat black comes to mind as one that would take out an inch of lands pretty quick.

Blame was sometimes an endless circle, abrasive paint, bad steel, Lilgun powder. It happened to enough barrels where it became a toss up, or possibly the combination of Lilgun and flat black. Many of the ones I became aware of were shooting AR’s and it was definitely not a cleaning issue. Unless you consider finding the problem the first time the rifle was cleaned, a cleaning related issue.
 

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