Cleaning with Abrasives and using Fire Lapping kits and warranty

[dellet]

When powder coating was becoming popular, people were grabbing everything they could to coat bullets. The cheaper the better. Harbor Freight flat black comes to mind as one that would take out an inch of lands pretty quick.

Blame was sometimes an endless circle, abrasive paint, bad steel, Lilgun powder. It happened to enough barrels where it became a toss up, or possibly the combination of Lilgun and flat black. Many of the ones I became aware of were shooting AR’s and it was definitely not a cleaning issue. Unless you consider finding the problem the first time the rifle was cleaned, a cleaning related issue.

 

[DaveTooley]

Had a customer who was anal about cleaning. He used abrasives on a patch on a brush after every group fired. In 255 rounds the barrel went from shooting .500" at 200 yds to 3"-4". Oddest finish I'd ever seen in a barrel. I sent it back to the manufacturer. Bore and groove was .001"+ big now. Just for the hell of it I had him lap it again to restore the finish. Still a 4" barrel.
Abrasives used in conjunction with a brush will do damage.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Ah yes, the keyboard experts. As I said a gazillion times, you should contact the manufacturer and ask. I did. Iosso is a very helpful company and I doubt they are trying to ruin your barrel. As they will tell you - different products for different situations.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but people repeating stuff they read on the internet by an "expert" drives me crazy.

Thank you sir. You nailed it

 

[jelenko]

Had a customer who was anal about cleaning. He used abrasives on a patch on a brush after every group fired. In 255 rounds the barrel went from shooting .500" at 200 yds to 3"-4". Oddest finish I'd ever seen in a barrel. I sent it back to the manufacturer. Bore and groove was .001"+ big now. Just for the hell of it I had him lap it again to restore the finish. Still a 4" barrel.
Abrasives used in conjunction with a brush will do damage.

Do you know if the abrasive he used was other than JB/Iosso/Flitz?

Also, are you thinking one of those abrasives on a patch wrapped around a jag would ok?

 

[jelenko]

How many on here have cleaned a barrel in the way that is described in this post to have the outcome like this?

Great question.
I clean ever 50-100 rounds [so a lot less than every 25] with 223 [I go throu 9-10K rounds a year - so I have some experience with this]. I do use a patch wrapped around a jag vs a brush. But the patch is doubled over so it's a tight fit. I only work the abrasive in the first 4 inches.
My barrels maintain 1/2 -3/4 MOA groups through low to mid 3000 rounds.

 

[Rewinder]

Post in thread 'Done with Nylon brushes...'

Sep 16, 2019

Who knows what to believe.

Here's a video that will turn this thread on its head. Lou kinda knows his stuff too.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=638423259992938

• MikeMcCasland

• 
• 

 

[jelenko]

Post in thread 'Done with Nylon brushes...'

Sep 16, 2019

Who knows what to believe.

Here's a video that will turn this thread on its head. Lou kinda knows his stuff too.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=638423259992938

• MikeMcCasland

• 
• 

He's not using an abrasive is he?

 

[Rewinder]

Rotation of the Nylon Bore brush. 90 Degree to the lands. Not parallel to the bore.
He use to use a Bronze brush. Said no difference.

 

[BowChamp]

This is all so weird for me.
For a couple years I've been cleaning with an abrasive after every 50-100 shots. [223 with 69 gr bullets]
I do use the abrasive on a patch wrapped around a parker hale jag.
Even at 4000 rounds the lands are clearly visible just where they were when the barrel was new. [Just from eyeballing - I'm sure there is some wear and that the start of the lands has moved forward - my S80's show 50-70 thousandths difference from new]

I can't imagine how one could use enough abrasive bore cleaner [e.g., not lapping compounds] to remove the amount material shown in those pics.

It does make a person scratch his head!!! LOL!!

I'm pretty sure one of the gentleman @FrankG mentioned was using a cordless drill at the range to clean between shots.

 

[DaveTooley]

Do you know if the abrasive he used was other than JB/Iosso/Flitz?

Also, are you thinking one of those abrasives on a patch wrapped around a jag would ok?

I don't remember what he used.
I use abrasives. The application varies depending on cartridge size, velocity and barrel age. When new I can manage everything using chemicals, a brass brush and soak time. As the barrel ages I go to occasional use of abrasives on a patch with a jag. Working primarily on the throat area. As it ages more I use abrasives more often and extend the treatment further down the barrel following the heat checking forward. Once it becomes an integral part of cleaning I had better have a new barrel ready to screw on.

 

[FrankG]

It does make a person scratch his head!!! LOL!!

I'm pretty sure one of the gentleman @FrankG mentioned was using a cordless drill at the range to clean between shots.

You remember that story huh! That was a while back.

That is a classic. Didn't wreck one but two for sure. Cleaning between relays and used a cordless drill to make sure he got the carbon ring out of the neck. We initially got blamed for bad steel and then the gunsmith got blamed for using a dull chamber reamer.

 

[FrankG]

I don't remember what he used.
I use abrasives. The application varies depending on cartridge size, velocity and barrel age. When new I can manage everything using chemicals, a brass brush and soak time. As the barrel ages I go to occasional use of abrasives on a patch with a jag. Working primarily on the throat area. As it ages more I use abrasives more often and extend the treatment further down the barrel following the heat checking forward. Once it becomes an integral part of cleaning I had better have a new barrel ready to screw on.

^^^^^right here... short and sweet and right to the point.

Thanks Dave!

 

[gdbleb]

Also if you read in my posts I feel sometimes shooters use an abrasive cleaner and they don’t always make sure they get it all out.

I think Frank hit the nail on the head here. The rare times I use an abrasive (once or twice a year) I spend 3 times as much time cleaning it out with mineral spirits than I spend scrubbing. And VFG pellets not a brush.

 

[FrankG]

Rotation of the Nylon Bore brush. 90 Degree to the lands. Not parallel to the bore.
He use to use a Bronze brush. Said no difference.

Beg to differ and I love Lou!

We've seen it first hand with spinning a brush in the bore of the barrel. It will damage the lands. Might also be in conjunction with the joint where the brush threads onto the rod. All of that bounce and whipping around.... damage is going to happen and your on your own. I've posted pictures in the past of that looks like damage wise.

 

[Turkeytider]

Ah yes, the keyboard experts. As I said a gazillion times, you should contact the manufacturer and ask. I did. Iosso is a very helpful company and I doubt they are trying to ruin your barrel. As they will tell you - different products for different situations.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but people repeating stuff they read on the internet by an "expert" drives me crazy.

Nope, didn’t take it as such, just to relate that there are folks who apparently use abrasives pretty much every time they clean. I am certainly not one of those, but I patch out and use a tight bore mop in the first 4”, neck and throat after each range session.
I have a new Shilen barrel ( sorry Frank, absolutely nothing against your barrels! ) on a .223 and the way it’s shooting at 500 yards, you can bet I’ m going to baby it!

 

[marchx]

Another cleaning thread! Love it. @FrankG @jelenko @CharlieNC
Guys, especially for you I opened a new bottle of lovely Moravian Chardonnay. Cheers!

 

[BowChamp]

You remember that story huh! That was a while back.

That is a classic. Didn't wreck one but two for sure. Cleaning between relays and used a cordless drill to make sure he got the carbon ring out of the neck. We initially got blamed for bad steel and then the gunsmith got blamed for using a dull chamber reamer.

Yes Sir!!! Makes me laugh everytime I think about it.

 

[paperpuncher]

Another cleaning thread! Love it. @FrankG @jelenko @CharlieNC
Guys, especially for you I opened a new bottle of lovely Moravian Chardonnay. Cheers!

View attachment 1703460

Its 5:00 o clock somewhere

 

[BoydAllen]

One of the advantages of cheap bore scopes is we can use them to track our progress as we clean. Given what I have learned over the years about the use of abrasives for barrel cleaning, I approach it with great caution. My goal is NOT To make the bore look like a mirror, but rather to bring it back to a point where it will shoot accurately., leaving a "patina" that will shorten the number of shots that it will take to get it shooting again after cleaning. Another think that I have learned is that pressure against the bore is not good. I only want the bare minimum to get the job done, no more. Finally, for a given cartridge, and powder combination I want to establish how many shots I can fire before I start to see the condition of the bore show up on the target. Some years back a fellow was starting out with his first 6PPC and had bought four eight pounders of LT32. I caught up to him relatively early in his experience with the rifle and told him that LT 32 would eventually build up enough hard carbon to degrade accuracy and that periodic use of IOSSO seemed to be a good way of dealing with that. I suggested careful use every 100 rounds, and outlined how I was doing that. He did what I suggested through several barrels and got their full expected match accuracy out of all of them, but I will say that he was meticulous about following directions, most are not. Typically, when I tell someone how to do something that I have done for a long time, with success they will modify the procedure without once simply following my directions. Short version, only work on the areas that have hard carbon, that copious bronze brushing and patching has failed to remove, and DO NOT attempt to make the area you are working on look like a mirror. Leave a little color, Monitor your work as you go. Even if you do not go to the extreme of changing dimensions or moving the throat, you can polish finish which will cause it to copper foul from being too smooth. By leaving a little color with no apparent thickness you protect that factory lapped finish.

 

[jimmymac]

It is after 5:00 here. FWIW, I clean mine with a homemade mix of 150 grit blended into some Hydrocortisone cream in case my ass gets chapped while cleaning the gun. I hear some guys prefer Vagasil though.