Cleaning Rifle After Shooting?

[Rsadams]

The best way to keep hard carbon or copper out of a barrel is to not let it build up in the first place.. Everyone has their way , but I find the foaming bore cleaner great... Plus it makes cleaning pistols way to easy...

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

First, thank you OP for asking the same question I had. Second, thank all of the great members of this forum for offering sound advice. My .223 used to shoot 0.5" MOA on a good day with good ammo if I was doing my part. Now I can barely keep groups under 2". I was using Hoppes #9 and following some internet information about how to clean. It was on YouTube, so it must be true . Then I started to wonder about Copper fouling, and I bought some Bore Tech Cu2. The blue-colored patches never stop. I feel like I could scrub for 10 hours and still would not get all of the copper. I suspect that my bore is severely fouled, and I worry that scrubbing endlessly with a bronze brush will actually cause damage, so I have been using a nylon brush. I get the impression that most responses to this post actually recommend the bronze brush and aggressive solvents. Never heard of hard carbon, but there's a good chance I have that too. Can someone elaborate on how/why this hard carbon forms?

Clunker,
To address the copper fouling that your describing I recommend you go to an ammonia based cleaner. Montana Extreme Copper Creme, Sweets, Montana Extreme Copper Killer, are a few that I.ve used with decent success and you can stay with the nylon brushes through some of the process.

Hard Carbon is some tough stuff, it has an almost ceramic or glass like hardness and is a result of repeated layers of powder fouling build up that have been ironed into the bore. The heat generated by powder burning from shooting through a bore that already has some powder residue deposits causes it.

First, I’d address getting the copper fouling out and then after that you can start on the carbon buildup. The use of ISSO pastes or JB bore paste can help you in removing it along with a bronze bristled brush. Also, somewhere in the process it would be a good idea to have the bore looked at with a bore scope to have a good look at what still may remain once you’ve pursued both copper and carbon fouling cleaning regimes.

Once you get it cleaned, I’m sure that it will be a reminder of what time consuming work took place to rectify the situation and hopefully you can be more diligent in future cleaning efforts.

Regards, - Ron -

 

[dcali]

Depends on the barrel. Customs are *much* easier to clean in general. Even then, some are easier than others for some reason. My current .308 basically cleans itself. It's kind of weird. Nothing sticks to it. More usually, a light regular cleaning and a more thorough cleaning every few hundred rounds does the job.

Benchrest guys will tell you differently, because they get very particular. But for most precision rifles, that seems to work if you use the right products. I use shooter's choice or KG12, and JB every now and then - I'm sure there are others that work. But some don't really work at tall.

 

[dcali]

First, thank you OP for asking the same question I had. Second, thank all of the great members of this forum for offering sound advice. My .223 used to shoot 0.5" MOA on a good day with good ammo if I was doing my part. Now I can barely keep groups under 2". I was using Hoppes #9 and following some internet information about how to clean. It was on YouTube, so it must be true . Then I started to wonder about Copper fouling, and I bought some Bore Tech Cu2. The blue-colored patches never stop. I feel like I could scrub for 10 hours and still would not get all of the copper. I suspect that my bore is severely fouled, and I worry that scrubbing endlessly with a bronze brush will actually cause damage, so I have been using a nylon brush. I get the impression that most responses to this post actually recommend the bronze brush and aggressive solvents. Never heard of hard carbon, but there's a good chance I have that too. Can someone elaborate on how/why this hard carbon forms?

Keep the Hoppes #9 for aromatic ambiance, because it doens't clean for shit. You've most likely got a ton of copper in there. Hard carbon is just the result of powder combustion that cakes together over time due to high pressure and works itself into a hard compacted mass. It's worse with some powders than others. You really don't want it - and need aggressive solvents or abrasives like JB to get it out.

 

[drags]

For most rifles that don't foul a lot, I'll run 3-4 soaking wet patches through bore. Then apply Wipe-Out foam. I wait about 20 minutes as the bubbles dissipate, while I'm loading my gear into the car. Then I reapply the foam, and plug muzzle and breech. I drive home and patch out about 3-4 hours later. That's it. With other barrels I might brush a little to remove hard carbon -- but I rarely shoot more than 70 rounds in one session and the wet patches and WipeOut takes care of that, if applied right after you shoot.

With the Wipe-out, no carbon ring after hundreds of rounds with Varget and H4350.

There are many other ways to clean that may work for you. I know those who believe aggressive bronze brushing works well for them. As a general principle, however, with a really good-shooting barrel, I take the conservative approach. YMMV.

When you run 3-4 soaking patches through what do you put on the patches and do you wipe out before applying wipe out?
Drags

 

[spife7980]

First, thank you OP for asking the same question I had. Second, thank all of the great members of this forum for offering sound advice. My .223 used to shoot 0.5" MOA on a good day with good ammo if I was doing my part. Now I can barely keep groups under 2". I was using Hoppes #9 and following some internet information about how to clean. It was on YouTube, so it must be true . Then I started to wonder about Copper fouling, and I bought some Bore Tech Cu2. The blue-colored patches never stop. I feel like I could scrub for 10 hours and still would not get all of the copper. I suspect that my bore is severely fouled, and I worry that scrubbing endlessly with a bronze brush will actually cause damage, so I have been using a nylon brush. I get the impression that most responses to this post actually recommend the bronze brush and aggressive solvents. Never heard of hard carbon, but there's a good chance I have that too. Can someone elaborate on how/why this hard carbon forms?

Clunker,
To address the copper fouling that your describing I recommend you go to an ammonia based cleaner. Montana Extreme Copper Creme, Sweets, Montana Extreme Copper Killer, are a few that I.ve used with decent success and you can stay with the nylon brushes through some of the process.

Hard Carbon is some tough stuff, it has an almost ceramic or glass like hardness and is a result of repeated layers of powder fouling build up that have been ironed into the bore. The heat generated by powder burning from shooting through a bore that already has some powder residue deposits causes it.

First, I’d address getting the copper fouling out and then after that you can start on the carbon buildup. The use of ISSO pastes or JB bore paste can help you in removing it along with a bronze bristled brush. Also, somewhere in the process it would be a good idea to have the bore looked at with a bore scope to have a good look at what still may remain once you’ve pursued both copper and carbon fouling cleaning regimes.

Once you get it cleaned, I’m sure that it will be a reminder of what time consuming work took place to rectify the situation and hopefully you can be more diligent in future cleaning efforts.

Regards, - Ron -

Keep the Hoppes #9 for aromatic ambiance, because it doens't clean for shit. You've most likely got a ton of copper in there. Hard carbon is just the result of powder combustion that cakes together over time due to high pressure and works itself into a hard compacted mass. It's worse with some powders than others. You really don't want it - and need aggressive solvents or abrasives like JB to get it out.

It could also just be his jag. Mine starts turning blue with Cu2 before it ever makes it in the barrel.

 

[clunker]

Once again, great responses guys. Spife was right about the jag turning my patches blue, but that isn't the whole story. My jag seems to be somewhat resistant to the Cu2 because it is still shiny, and by itself, it doesn't blue the patches enough to account for what I'm seeing. However, the brass core nylon brush and brass end of my bore rod are very tarnished. For that reason I have been switching back and forth with a steel core nylon brush and a crappy aluminum bore rod. The good news is that I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. After Five cleaning sessions since Wednesday and letting the bore soak in between, I finally pushed a wet patch through and it came out clear. Of course, the following dry patch came out blue, but I was very happy to see anything come out clear. Does anyone know if Bore Tech sells that stuff in 55-gallon drums?

Damoncali, where were you when I was buying my first cleaning supplies? Who knew that the legendary Hoppes #9 was crap. The Youtube video showed a supposed gunsmith using that snake oil with only a couple passes with a brush and a few passes with some patches. All clean in less than five minutes. Curious how much Hoppes paid him for that bit of fake news. I imagine people still use the stuff because it is what their great grandfathers used back when humans were still hunting woolly mammoths, and it was the only bore cleaner on the market.

Unfortunately, there is more work to be done. Somehow, soaking the bore with that Cu2 managed to free up some carbon. To be more specific, the first wet patch after each soaking, belched out what looked like used motor oil. Guess I'll be looking at Bore Tech's carbon stuff too. I imagine that hard carbon is like the residue I had to clean off my bolt face after blowing the primer out of a casing in my Creedmoor. It was like scraping hard plastic, and it took me about 40 minutes to clean the small ring. Is that the type of stuff that might be residing in the grooves of my bore? God help me!

 

[K22]

As my Dentist told me, it's the mechanical action of the brush that removes the bad stuff, not the paste or mouth wash. I extrapolated that advice to removing carbon from my rifle barrels thus I use a bronze brush. However it doesn't work too well on teeth and is hard on the gums.

 

[Rsadams]

Foam it , tilt the rifle up , leave it for awhile and watch the blue run out the barrel..