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Cleaning barrel question

Need to amend my prior post, I started with C4, then proceded to Cu+2 and bronze brush for the copper. In this instance, I wanted all the copper out fully aware I would need to re-season the bore in the future.

This particual 7RM was my primary hunting rifle in the 80s and early 90s and hasn't been fired since my last elk hunt in 1997. I'd periocially pull it out and run a couple patches through re-oil and put away.

Last week I borescoped it with my Teslong, and was stunned at the amount of copper in the bore, every groove was lined from the leade to muzzle. Wish I'd had the presence of mind to take some bore pics before I scrubbed the copper out.

Shooter's Choice was my previous solvent of choice and had also used Butch's Bore Shine. Like you, I also clean in the house and although the odor never bothered me, my wife wasn't particularly happy about it.

I absolutely believe there's a point of equilibium, especially with factory barrels (probably more so with Savage), and let the target tell me when it's time for a deep clean and re-season. Since this particular rifle is now more or less a safe queen I'm fine with it devoid of copper. ;-)
Watch gunblue490's* two videos, Gun Cleaning and Solvents; How to Clean Your Rifle Professionally... then evaluate for yourself his claims. I found his assertions to be true at least with regards to my rifles a year or so into following his basic principles. The only difference being is that I'm using C4 because of it's superior carbon removal capability.

Based on the research I did, there are similar posts by others that address the same issue of achieving copper equilibrium to promote consistent point of impact.

*PS: This guy is not a nut case. He has a lot of experience and an impressive professional resume.
 
I've got a factory barrel that I'm using bore tech nylon brushes . The barrel is 6.5 creedmoor and using 6.5 mm brushes. I was wanting to scrub the barrel but reversing the brush in the barrel is a no go, its skin tight it will not reverse. I have used a smaller caliber brush but it seems to not make much contact through the barrel..
I'm ready for all hateful comments lol
I guess my question is why? What purpose will it serve? Is there some great cleaning benefit to reversing that complete passes fall short on?

Not for or against reversing the brush while in the barrel, other than a proper fitting brush is almost impossible to reverse and can cause lots of problems as a stuck brush.

I guess we clean our barrels like we make love, some like long steady strokes, some like short and choppy, I kind of like a combination of both.
 
I challange you......do what you do in your normal fashion, nothing extra if you want to learn. When done run a wet patch of Sweets thru your stainless barrel then one time back and then push back forward out the muzzle. Let the gun sit over night, 8 to 12 hrs. Run a clean patch thru it and observe. Get educated by doing.
 
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And then there are shooters, (and barrel makers),such as John Krieger who say……”we don’t shoot Matches with clean barrels”.

Take your borescope to the range, and take a look after just firing 3 rounds through a thoroughly clean barrel .

It will scare you.
 
I challange you......do what you do in your normal fashion, nothing extra if you want to learn. When done run a wet patch of Sweets thru the barrel then one time back and then push back forward out the muzzle. Let the gunshot over night, 8 to 12 yrs. Run a clean patch thru it and observe. Get educated by doing.
Perhaps you should mention that this should only be done with stainless barrels.
 
And then there are shooters, (and barrel makers),such as John Krieger who say……”we don’t shoot Matches with clean barrels”.

Take your borescope to the range, and take a look after just firing 3 rounds through a thoroughly clean barrel .

It will scare you.
I am sure you are correct but at a match I believe there is an accumulative effect . So if you never clean, your entire barrel becomes a carbon ring. Of course a 30 barrel accepts a lot more residue before performance is degraded compared to a 6. It's why I shoot a .30br with a smile. No cleaning box to drag to the range. Jackie, have you ever shot a 6 over a chronograph with 40 to 50 rounds thru it while dirty to compare the velocity?
 
I took your advice, thanks,although I have done others a time two.
A couple of decades back and more, I accidentally left Sweets in the barrel of a 788 overnight and ruined it. It was pitted. At that point I swore off off Sweets because I had other ways of dealing with jacket fouling that did not pose that risk. Back in the day I knew a fellow who could tell if a barrel had been regularly cleaned using Sweets, by bore scope inspection. You may have heard of him, Merrill Martin.
 
A couple of decades back and more, I accidentally left Sweets in the barrel of a 788 overnight and ruined it. It was pitted. At that point I swore off off Sweets because I had other ways of dealing with jacket fouling that did not pose that risk. Back in the day I knew a fellow who could tell if a barrel had been regularly cleaned using Sweets, by bore scope inspection. You may have heard of him, Merrill Martin.
Not familar wth Mr. Martin. I have been using Sweets for many years with no ill effects. If your talking a stainless barrel probably because it had no fouling he could detect. Some years ago back in the Shiloutte days some guys I shot with split an old stainless barrel and left Sweets in it for I believe 48 hrs. They worked at a large manufacturing facility that used lots of steel. They gave it to the Engineering Dept that had very high end microscopes. They could detect no I'll effects. I have a 6BRX barrel,that was a hummer if I ever had one. Over 4000 rounds it won the last three matches I shot it in. Cleaned every match and well soaked with Sweets. Works for me.
 
W
I am sure you are correct but at a match I believe there is an accumulative effect . So if you never clean, your entire barrel becomes a carbon ring. Of course a 30 barrel accepts a lot more residue before performance is degraded compared to a 6. It's why I shoot a .30br with a smile. No 35cleaning box to drag to the range. Jackie, have you ever shot a 6 over a chronograph with 40 to 50 rounds thru it while dirty to compare the velocity?
With our 6BR’s shooting my 103, we test over my 35 Ohler, not cleaning because we know some of the matches are not friendly to cleaning. Accuracy does’t not seem to suffer. And velocities stay pretty level.

but, I am testing for pure accuracy at 200, not SD or ES.

Here is a great interview with John Krieger.

I don’t adhere to everything he says, but he has got to be one of the real down to earth men in the Industry.

 
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Not familar wth Mr. Martin. I have been using Sweets for many years with no ill effects. If your talking a stainless barrel probably because it had no fouling he could detect. Some years ago back in the Shiloutte days some guys I shot with split an old stainless barrel and left Sweets in it for I believe 48 hrs. They worked at a large manufacturing facility that used lots of steel. They gave it to the Engineering Dept that had very high end microscopes. They could detect no I'll effects. I have a 6BRX barrel,that was a hummer if I ever had one. Over 4000 rounds it won the last three matches I shot it in. Cleaned every match and well soaked with Sweets. Works for me.

W

With our 6BR’s shooting my 103, we test over my 35 Ohler, not cleaning because we know some of the matches are not friendly to cleaning. Accuracy does’t not seem to suffer. And velocities stay pretty level.

but, I am testing for pure accuracy at 200, not SD or ES.

Here is a great interview with John Krieger.

Truth is on the target.....that's for sure. Thanks for the reply. I have never checked velocity over a dirty barrel but might try it. I use the chrony sparingly, I trust the target more.I will watch the video you posted.
 
just a question, what type of shooting are you doing?

My 6.5 CM, Savage likes a dirty bore. I 600 and 1000 yd shoot and have found out from experience that if I clean out the copper in the barrel it takes about 20 rounds before my groups come back.

At present time I have 255 rounds down my barrel since I last cleaned it and this is my group at 1000 yds.

I found that after about 350 rounds my groups start to open up and then I will scrub out the copper and start over.
 

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There are many different products used to clean barrels. And different barrels, used with different powder types, will demand more or less aggressive cleaning.

I do want to note three points:

1. Custom, hand-lapped barrels will generally require much less aggressive cleaning than factory barrels, particularly concerning copper.
2. You might be surprised at the cleaning methods/frequency of top long-range and F-Class shooters. Some of the very top guys clean a LOT less than you might expect. With short-range PPC shooters it's a different story.
3. When time permits, everyone can benefit by cleaning barrels at the range immediately after shooting before the carbon sets up. This makes a BIG difference. Honest guys, you may be shocked at how much time, effort, and chemicals you can save by cleaning very soon after shooting.

If you want to minimize brushing, for a good custom barrel, consider:

Run 5-6 soaking wet patches with a standard bore cleaner through the barrel right after the shooting session concludes. Then apply Wipe-Out Foam, and let that sit for 15 minutes so the bubbles disappear. Then re-apply the foam, plug the barrel at the muzzle and chamber. Drive home then patch out the barrel after 3-5 hours.

Check out how it works. You may be stunned by how effective this is, and how well the gun shoots. If the cleaning is not fully effective, add a few brush strokes before the foam and after the soaking wet patches. But 3-6 one-way passes may be all that you need.

As noted before, there are many different ways to successfully clean barrels. But I always recommend to start conservatively. You may be surprised at how much time and effort you can save. You may also find that your barrels go longer before they need to be re-crowned.
 

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