So I’ve been shooting hand loads about 10 years and I’ve been fairly successful doing so with everything from full custom bolt guns to nice shooting factory rifles but I’ve spent a lot of time and money trying to learn for myself and I’m in need of some help with my cleaning and shooting process. As far as how many rounds to shoot before it’s time to clean or how hot the barrel gets while shooting groups. I seem to get good accuracy from a clean barrel with about two foulers then maby three or so three round groups then the groups open up from under .5” to around 1” so I find it hard to develop loads when I’m cleaning every 12 or 15 rounds. Barrel heats up but I’m shooting slow enough to let it cool some maby 10 rounds in 10-15 mins no rapid shooting. I’m able to get a few same ragged hole groups then they open to .75 or more with the same load and less than 20 round count on a cleaning. Does this sound right? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cleaning and accuracy advice appreciated
- Thread starter Munchigan
- Start date
Depends on the barrel. In general I want my factory pencil barreled hunting rifles to stay under 1.5"
And my factory varmint barrels at or under .75". All 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
If you're shooting well made custom barrels with a heavier profile you can normally expect to stay well under .75"
As far as how many shots before cleaning, that can very gun to gun. Of course most of us would love for a barrel to stay accurate without ever having to clean but that's just not the case.
I've never shot short range benchrest but I've attended several matches and most, if not all, will clean their barrels after every relay. So 5 shots for record and however name sighters they shoot, maybe 5-10.
So in this situation the barrel stays fairly clean.
Can you list more specifics about the rifles, especially barrel info and what discipline your shooting in.
One other thing is, I really really advise the use of a bore scope when it comes to cleaning. This is the only way to really know where you are at with your barrel. Especially when you are trying to learn the gun and what it will and will not do.
And my factory varmint barrels at or under .75". All 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
If you're shooting well made custom barrels with a heavier profile you can normally expect to stay well under .75"
As far as how many shots before cleaning, that can very gun to gun. Of course most of us would love for a barrel to stay accurate without ever having to clean but that's just not the case.
I've never shot short range benchrest but I've attended several matches and most, if not all, will clean their barrels after every relay. So 5 shots for record and however name sighters they shoot, maybe 5-10.
So in this situation the barrel stays fairly clean.
Can you list more specifics about the rifles, especially barrel info and what discipline your shooting in.
One other thing is, I really really advise the use of a bore scope when it comes to cleaning. This is the only way to really know where you are at with your barrel. Especially when you are trying to learn the gun and what it will and will not do.
You need a bore scope and to look and see whats what when accuracy goes away. Is it powder fouling or copper? Is it fouling that is the problem or something else? Maybe its time to try another powder that shoots cleaner? Some powders burn poorly till they are close to the max pressure. Rough barrel that fouls too quickly? A bore scope is to me a diagnostic tool to tell if I am really cleaning a barrel or just think I am. Jon Newman had me clen the best I could and looked at my bore long before electronic bore scopes with a Hawk eye and I was not doing as good as I thought I was. I have never been able to keep a rifle anywhere near clean with a nylon brush, most don't believe this and insist their gun is clean, but no one really knows unless they own a bore scope. You may have more problems than cleaning but you will not know for sure till you own a borescope.
Jayplace
Gold $$ Contributor
I wish That I knew how often to clean my barrel also.
The short range Benchrest group shooter swear by cleaning between each target, which is 5-10 shots.
The VFS shooters which have almost identical quality equipment typically clean at the end of the match, which would usually be 40 to 50 shots.
And, many long range target shooters will shoot 80 or so shots between cleanings and they shoot amazingly small groups too.
Each discipline typically uses a different cartridge from the other, but I don't think that is the reason for the different cleaning routines.
The short range Benchrest group shooter swear by cleaning between each target, which is 5-10 shots.
The VFS shooters which have almost identical quality equipment typically clean at the end of the match, which would usually be 40 to 50 shots.
And, many long range target shooters will shoot 80 or so shots between cleanings and they shoot amazingly small groups too.
Each discipline typically uses a different cartridge from the other, but I don't think that is the reason for the different cleaning routines.
You are going to get a variety of advice ranging from solvents, methods, frequency, etc. Just do a search on the net and your will see the wide range of "expert" advice on this subject. But first, have a few stiff drinks to buttress the vast amount of diverse advice you will find.
My best advice is to do some experimentation to find what works best for your rifle and your shooting requirements. I use the results on target to tell me if my method is adequate.
The are a few common axioms, however. For example, use a bore guide and a high-quality single piece rod such as Dewey or Bore Tech. It's also important that the rod be long enough so as clear the top of the stock. If you use bronze brushes, use ones with looped ends and brass cores. High quality cotton flannel patches such as Pro Shot that hold the solvent work best in my experience. If you use an aggressive copper solvent, use a rod and jag that does not react with the solvent to give you false positives. Often neglected, is cleaning the chamber and bolt. There are inexpensive special tools to properly clean the recess lugs in the receiver of bolt rifles.
In my experience, one of the most important aspects for precision shooting aside from cleaning is having a properly bedded rifle with the barrel free floated. Otherwise, you are "peeing in the wind" in trying to seek precise results.
My best advice is to do some experimentation to find what works best for your rifle and your shooting requirements. I use the results on target to tell me if my method is adequate.
The are a few common axioms, however. For example, use a bore guide and a high-quality single piece rod such as Dewey or Bore Tech. It's also important that the rod be long enough so as clear the top of the stock. If you use bronze brushes, use ones with looped ends and brass cores. High quality cotton flannel patches such as Pro Shot that hold the solvent work best in my experience. If you use an aggressive copper solvent, use a rod and jag that does not react with the solvent to give you false positives. Often neglected, is cleaning the chamber and bolt. There are inexpensive special tools to properly clean the recess lugs in the receiver of bolt rifles.
In my experience, one of the most important aspects for precision shooting aside from cleaning is having a properly bedded rifle with the barrel free floated. Otherwise, you are "peeing in the wind" in trying to seek precise results.
Is this a pattern with all your rifles ? If so that would be very frustrating, with a clean barrel I can go four cycles of record rounds and have the last groups of the day be some of the best. I clean at the end of the day and use a bore scope to review the barrel condition.
Jim
TTE
Gold $$ Contributor
You did not include any barrel details (make, caliber, diameter etc.).
For me .... that is fast (however I am paranoid about barrel heat).
I shoot 5 in about the same time .... then the barrel cooler (24CFM) goes in during the line break.
Benchrest barrel s clean alot easier than most because of the barrel grade. My shilen select match will take half the passes a production barrel takes. Its like glass on the inside. Doug
Forum Boss
Administrator
Assuming you have a good, match-grade barrel, such as Krieger, Brux, Lilja, Bartlein, etc. you can benefit from flooding the barrel with Wipe-Out foam at the end of your session, while the barrel is still warm and the carbon has not set up.
Wipe-Out Foam Cleaner: https://amzn.to/4bgTA7b
I flood my 6BR and 6 BRA barrels at the end of the last relay, squirting from the muzzle end with the chamber fully plugged. I then wait about 20 minutes for the foam to dissipate and then I apply foam a second time. I then plug the muzzle and carry the rifle home in an Airglide case which has the action higher than the muzzle, so any drizzle goes out the front.
This procedure has probably reduced the amount of brushing I do by 70%. YMMV. But my 6BR holds a range record at 600 yards, and the 6 BRA (with a Brux) requires very little brushing.
Also, when brushing, I recommend NOT drawing the bronze brush back across the crown after it has exited the barrel. I remove it and clean it, then send it back through from the chamber end after applying fresh solvent.
I know that people with excellent competitive records will say going back and forth across the crown doesn't make a difference. I can't challenge their success -- all I can say is I have inspected crowns carefully that look like shark's teeth. Also the accuracy seems to last longer when you don't mess with your crowns.
Again, I know that many great shooters brush hard and brush a LOT. All I can say it that most of you guys would be absolutely shocked by how little I need to brush. One shooter at my club, following my advice, was able to brush a LOT less and his barrels stayed accurate 50% longer.
Wipe-Out Foam Cleaner: https://amzn.to/4bgTA7b
I flood my 6BR and 6 BRA barrels at the end of the last relay, squirting from the muzzle end with the chamber fully plugged. I then wait about 20 minutes for the foam to dissipate and then I apply foam a second time. I then plug the muzzle and carry the rifle home in an Airglide case which has the action higher than the muzzle, so any drizzle goes out the front.
This procedure has probably reduced the amount of brushing I do by 70%. YMMV. But my 6BR holds a range record at 600 yards, and the 6 BRA (with a Brux) requires very little brushing.
Also, when brushing, I recommend NOT drawing the bronze brush back across the crown after it has exited the barrel. I remove it and clean it, then send it back through from the chamber end after applying fresh solvent.
I know that people with excellent competitive records will say going back and forth across the crown doesn't make a difference. I can't challenge their success -- all I can say is I have inspected crowns carefully that look like shark's teeth. Also the accuracy seems to last longer when you don't mess with your crowns.
Again, I know that many great shooters brush hard and brush a LOT. All I can say it that most of you guys would be absolutely shocked by how little I need to brush. One shooter at my club, following my advice, was able to brush a LOT less and his barrels stayed accurate 50% longer.
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The rifles are a savage with custom pre-fit, a howa barreled action and even a 700 bench style gun with a bartlein all in 6.5 cm all in chassis or bedded stock with light triggers and heavy barrel with 25x or better scopes. And yes Jim all seem to have this same pattern and very capable of same hole groups at 100 but only for a short period so I just assume it’s my cleaning routine which I have read about and tried several different ways and products. Also like I stated I’m not sure how warm the barrel should get during or I between groups also I do have a bore scope I use between cleanings. I’m not looking for .25 groups all day but seems .5 for more than a couple 3 round groups should be reasonable
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
My only 12-15 rd accuracy decline barrel was a late 80's Remington factory 17rem. It was part of a factory recall, if I remember correctly Rem letter said it was improperly hardened. Since that can't be your issues(multiple barrels), are you shooting suppressed? Suppressor and dirty powders are not great for long string consistency. When we shoot prairie dogs, 100,200 rds not uncommon before cleaning and we are still popping dogs past 200-300 yards. I will sometimes set up a paper target at 100 yards when shooting pd, my rifles are still shooting "inside" the group at the end of the day. Most of my rifles are factory barrels.
I’m not as experienced as some other guys but I can go four cycles on a clean barrel and shoot pretty well on the last relay, a total of about fifty rounds including sighters.
i try a shoot a smooth steady pace using a fan to blow barrel heat away from the sight picture.
i try a shoot a smooth steady pace using a fan to blow barrel heat away from the sight picture.
There is a bit to think about on this topic and how a tune changes during the day.
Cleaning cycle strategies and load development
Understanding the short range competitors clean between relays so this question is directed more towards cleaning cycles during and after load development and long range shooters that have a cleaning strategy. Once we go through the throat break in stage and de coppering and cleaning of the...
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