Claeaning small caliber center fires

[jsthntn247]

Is there any reason a small caliber rifle would foul more than larger ones? I've been working up loads in a 223 here the last few days and this barrel powder fouls horribly. I broke the barrel in like I always do and havnt noticed much copper. The barrel has 130 rounds on it now and I just cleaned it with about 40 rounds from the last cleaning. It took 34 patches and 1.5 hours to get all the powder fouling out. I can push a few patches with kg1 on it to get the loose stuff then a few strokes with a brush then a few more patches and usually that's all it takes. However it seems to be layered in this barrel with most of the fouling coming from the lands. When I think its clean I can hit it a few strokes with the brush just to make sure then the next 3 patches after the brush come out solid black then the next few will have fouling just on lands, the patches will start to clear up then I hit it with the brush again and it starts over. The barrel is a 4 groove Bartlein and been using Varget. Any thoughts.

 

[fdshuster]

jsthntn247: I believe the answer is "yes". It goes with the territory. Had my first (and only), experience with a 20 cal. (204 Ruger, Hart 1-12 barrel), after years of 22, 6mm and 30 calibers.

The buildup of carbon, and to some degree copper, was far above what I have ever experienced with the larger calibers, even the "little" 22's. Have a Tikka barreled 308 and a Krieger 308, and the required cleaning of carbon is essentially not an issue. Maybe every 300 to 400 rounds fired I'll give it a light cleaning with JB bore paste, maybe not, depends what I see with the borescope.

I could, and did, start out with a perfectly clean, down to bare metal bore surface, as verified with my Hawkeye borescope, and in as little as 15 to 20 rounds fired, the bore of the 20 cal. looked like a coal mine, black with carbon fouling, after easily removing the powder & copper. This with any and all the recommended powders for the 204 Ruger. Naturally as the carbon quickly built-up, up went the pressures and the group sizes went into the toilet. Had to give it a good cleaning every 25 rounds.

From talking to others, I would imagine the even smaller 17 calibers would be even worse.

I know others will dis-agree, I'm just relating my experiences. The 204 was "gone" in a very short time.

p.s.: Just re-read your post and should have added: I've not really had a problem with powder fouling. Plain old Butch's with a light brushing to loosen it, and it will be gone. A little soak time and the copper will be out. All Bartlein & Krieger barrels.

It's difficult to learn what's going on inside your barrel without the ability to see the surfaces before and after.

 

[LHSmith]

Just push one soaked patch through initially, let set for a few minutes, then go right to the BRONZE brush.....brushes clean up easy with alcohol. Attack the carbon while the barrel is still warm, before it has a chance to harden. A lot depends on the powder used, but smaller caliber's generally are more prone to fouling problems.

 

[cjmac]

Well iv learned this past week that with my 223. About every 50 rounds all i have to do i push a patch of hoppes or shooters choice then a few dry ones. If that dont work i brush a few times. Thats it

 

[cjmac]

Im using varget and RL15

 

[fredhorace77]

i have experienced similar problems and discovered that if i went to a little faster burning powder the problem was alittle easier to deal with. I used varget with a 40gr. vmax and had horrible powder fouling, went to benchmark powder and the problem ceased. basically try going to a faster burn rate because i think the heavy fouling you are seeing is powder that is not burning adequately. when i chrono the varget and 40gr. loads the speed was really low so thats what got me to trying a faster powder. when i use varget with 60gr. or heavier bullets the fouling is much much less.

 

[jsthntn247]

I'm shooting the 90 Vld's in a 30" barrel I should be getting complete powder burn. A well respected shooter around here had the same thing happen with a 6mm brux. Ended up being the barrel was not lapped properly, new barrel and no more problems. I hope this isn't the case.

 

[sundance]

I have used molycoated bullets in my 223 ackleys for 15+ years and I only clean every 4-500 rounds.I know moly has fallen out of grace with a lot of shooters but I see no reason to change .I use 2200 powder in both rifles.Both have Krieger barrels.
Maybe you should try 100 rounds with moly bullets in a clean barrel and see what happens? I started using moly because I was cleaning every 25-50 rounds and didn't like cleaning when 25 prairie dogs were barking at me .

 

[fredhorace77]

I'm shooting the 90 Vld's in a 30" barrel I should be getting complete powder burn. A well respected shooter around here had the same thing happen with a 6mm brux. Ended up being the barrel was not lapped properly, new barrel and no more problems. I hope this isn't the case.

i agree...90s should deafinately be burning all of the vargrt

 

[jonbearman]

I have been using h335 and blc-2 without the heavy fouling you guys are experiencing. Could it be the powder just burns dirtier than others. I know rel15 is dirty but I don't use it in anything smaller than 30 cals. Has anyone had less carbon using the powders I speak of or is it hit or miss.

 

[jfseaman]

i have experienced similar problems and discovered that if i went to a little faster burning powder the problem was alittle easier to deal with. I used varget with a 40gr. vmax and had horrible powder fouling, went to benchmark powder and the problem ceased. basically try going to a faster burn rate because i think the heavy fouling you are seeing is powder that is not burning adequately. when i chrono the varget and 40gr. loads the speed was really low so thats what got me to trying a faster powder. when i use varget with 60gr. or heavier bullets the fouling is much much less.

Same same. Faster powder, problem solved.

 

[BoydAllen]

Even with the cleanest powder that I am aware of, 133, I see an increase in powder fouling with lower pressures, I do not think that the issue is completeness of burning, but rather peak pressure, which is consistent with the previous posts that indicated that going to a faster powder solved their problem.

Back in the day, I tried some H414 in my Swift loaded to pressures that were moderate. This produced powder fouling that vigorous bronze brush scrubbing did not remove. Using a bore scope, you could not see metal in the bottoms of the grooves (after the brushing). A little careful work with IOSSO solved the problem, and using other powders, at higher pressures prevented its return.

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

Do you run a couple of patches soaked with lock ezz (available at Napa) & leave the lock ezz in the barrel and it will burn out after a shot.Speedy Gonzalez taught me that procedure. This way the first couple of shots arn't in a dry barrel.I Ave been doing this procedure along with Iosso bore paste every 250 rounds.It has pretty much eliminated any fouling. Good Shootin!!!!! JVON

 

[asauer]

I think it depends on the individual barrel in question, as much as it does it caliber. Patches ran through my Ruger 17hmr will come out dirty for eternity. Not sure if it's the priming compound or powder used, but I don't worry about it anymore. Just clean whenever I feel like it. Accuracy almost seems better dirty.
My CZ 17HH cleans up wonderfully easy, as do both of my ARs (one chrome lined, one not).
My swift with a Douglas barrel used to clean up easily with zero copper fouling, but after about 750 rounds decided it wanted to copper foul like crazy- I'm talking streaks down the entire bore. Accuracy is still there, so I just deal with it and clean as usual (every 20-25 shots).
I also use KG-1, as of the last couple years. And KG-12 is the best I've found for copper. I just run KG-1 through with one patch, then a bronze brush. Let it soak only a few minutes then dry patch out. Repeat, only with KG-12 and a NYLON brush. Leave KG-12 to soak overnight, and wash the brushes out with hot soapy water. The next day I dry patch the bore out, then run a few patches wetted with Kroil, followed by a bronze brush again. One more wet patch of Kroil to clean residual gunk out (usually get a little more carbon) then one dry patch and I'm done.
Sounds like a lot of work, but only about a dozen patches and five actual minutes of my time, even for my copper hound swift.

 

[asauer]

To add to my previous post about my swift- has anyone else noticed more copper fouling with one brand of bullets vs another? Same powder, same primer, etc but Hornady bullets copper foul worse in my swift than does, say, Sierra.
I'm wondering if there is a hardness difference in general between the two manufacturers' jackets?
PS charge weight/velocity does not seem to make a difference. A starting load with Hornady bullets copper fouls more than a max load with Sierra bullets with any powder type.
I assume the throat is firecracked, but I find it interesting.