Choose a 260AI or the 280AI for the edge in 100 yard accuracy?

[VaniB]

I'm narrowing it down to choose either the 260AI or the 280AI to serve as a possible long distance target rifle, and maybe for hunting too. But my main intertest and pastime is to be able to shoot slow 5 shot clover leaf groups at 100 yards with tailored handloads.
Might a precision shooter here have first hand experience to tell me which of these two cartridges has the edge in the 100 yard accuracy department? The barrel will be a 26" Sendero contour firing a 139-140 grain bullet in the 260AI. Or, it will be the 280AI firing a 162 Amax. The 280AI will cetainly have a muzzle brake, and maybe the 260AI too.


Which one better prints tight 100 yard clusters?? Thanks.









PS A note to the Web Police who just have to tell everybody that I posted a similar thread at one other websight ........There, I just did it for you. :

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Surely at 100 yards you want to shoot a flat base bullet? Regards JCS

 

[mattri]

Do you mean 1000 yards?

 

[boltfluter]

"PS A note to the Web Police who just have to tell everybody that I posted a similar thread at one other websight ........There, I just did it for you. "

Way to be proactive. I like it. Paul. 8)

www.boltfluting.com

 

[GSRswapandslow]

i wouldn't choose either for 100yds....

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

i wouldn't choose either for 100yds....

Me either. 6ppc or 6br with flat base bullets for 100 yard shooting....

 

[GSRswapandslow]

6br is what i'm going for....75-87gr FBHP

 

[bheadboy]

you asked about the 260/280AI so i will answer about them

i have both and to shoot at 100 as you asked i would have to say my 280AI out shot my 260AI at all ranges and with all bullets.

The only concern is off the bench on a light rifle the 280AI recoil is more than the 260AI so if you are sensitive to that you have a problem.
At longer ranges the 280 heavier bullets give an advantage as the 260 case is limiting.

Bob

 

[paperpuncher]

Well Id compromise and do a 6.5-06 AI ;D

 

[TheSnake]

The 280 bullets are bigger so you would have a better chance of them touching at 100. Hows that for a justification!

I think the OP was meaning 100 since he is talking about clover leafing. That or he is a REAL good shot at 1000.

So getting real, I think either in a "long distance target rifle" would fit the bill at 100.

 

[VaniB]

The overwelming consensus here and elsewhere is that the 280AI is preferred over the 260AI. I think a 280 AI it will be. Now the question is how well will a muzzle brake tame it? Well enough to enjoy it for a 20 or 30 shot session I hope?

Yes, the majority of my shooting is slow 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I now know that expectations for "cloverleaf" groups aren't realistic with this kind of large cartridge. I can commonly shoot 3/8" groups and better with both of my short action centerfire rifles. It would be a disappointment if I couldn't do at least 1/2" consistently with a 280AI. While I'd like to use the 162-180 bullets for their high BC, I will allow any bullet that delivers the accuracy to become the pet load.

 

[mattri]

At such a close range the high bc of rethe longer, heavier bullets won't really offer any advantage. A lot of times they don't even stabalize inside of 300 or so yards.

Not trying to be smart but are you looking to build a point blank bench gun that you can also hunt with, or a long range hunting rifle that you will also use as a bench rig?

 

[markr]

The overwelming consensus here and elsewhere is that the 280AI is preferred over the 260AI. I think a 280 AI it will be. Now the question is how well will a muzzle brake tame it? Well enough to enjoy it for a 20 or 30 shot session I hope?

Yes, the majority of my shooting is slow 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I now know that expectations for "cloverleaf" groups aren't realistic with this kind of large cartridge. I can commonly shoot 3/8" groups and better with both of my short action centerfire rifles. It would be a disappointment if I couldn't do at least 1/2" consistently with a 280AI. While I'd like to use the 162-180 bullets for their high BC, I will allow any bullet that delivers the accuracy to become the pet load.

There is little difference between a 280 AI and a 7mm mag...noise and recoil wise anyway.
I would go with the 260 AI and shoot 140 class bullets for longer ranges and 120 class for the shorter ranges that you want to shoot. It will be much easier for you to put up with. If it were me, I would scrap the muzzle brake idea too.

 

[VaniB]

........ Not trying to be smart but are you looking to build a point blank bench gun that you can also hunt with, or a long range hunting rifle that you will also use as a bench rig?

I have already purchased a long action donor rifle and don't wish to scrap the project. I want a long distance rifle that can also be used most of the time for 100 yard target shooting. (I don't compete, but I demand good accuracy) I now understand and can accept the fact that I can't expect 1/4" clover leaf groups in PPC fashion. But, will it at least do 5 shot 1/2" groups? If I can believe the archives on this websight and take what folks say here LITERALLY, then 1/2" groups should be doable. (with my proper handloads, and whatever bullets the rifle likes best)

While I might forego a muzzle brake on the 260 AI, it will be masochism to waive it on the 280AI. I'm sure I would not find it enjoyable to shoot 20-30 round of a 280AI for informal target without a muzzle brake. But, just how much will a muzzle braked 280AI recoil? I want to be sure it tames a 280AI enough so that I will not mind shooting it. 30 rounds that leave your shoulder black-and- blue will likely soon not be considerd a fun and "casual" target rifle.

 

[markr]

........ Not trying to be smart but are you looking to build a point blank bench gun that you can also hunt with, or a long range hunting rifle that you will also use as a bench rig?

If you're going with the 280 AI you may as well have stayed with the 7 mag, for all intents and purposes they are the same same. The 260 will allow you to shoot comfortably for quite a few rounds, and not having a muzzle brake will allow others around you to shoot comfortably as well.
With your main intent being 100 yds, the 6.5 120 gr class bullets will shine, then go to the 140 class of bullets for your long range encounters, it will do yeomans work at either you choose using less powder dojng it.


I have already purchased a long action donor rifle and don't wish to scrap the project. I want a long distance rifle that can also be used most of the time for 100 yard target shooting. (I don't compete, but I demand good accuracy) I now understand and can accept the fact that I can't expect 1/4" clover leaf groups in PPC fashion. But, will it at least do 5 shot 1/2" groups? If I can believe the archives on this websight and take what folks say here LITERALLY, then 1/2" groups should be doable. (with my proper handloads, and whatever bullets the rifle likes best)

While I might forego a muzzle brake on the 260 AI, it will be masochism to waive it on the 280AI. I'm sure I would not find it enjoyable to shoot 20-30 round of a 280AI for informal target without a muzzle brake. But, just how much will a muzzle braked 280AI recoil? I want to be sure it tames a 280AI enough so that I will not mind shooting it. 30 rounds that leave your shoulder black-and- blue will likely soon not be considerd a fun and "casual" target rifle.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I'm narrowing it down to choose either the 260AI or the 280AI to serve as a possible long distance target rifle, and maybe for hunting too. ....

I have a 260 Rem, and a 243 AI.

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/gallery/member-galleries/p2948-remington-700-sa-in-260-rem.html
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/gallery/member-galleries/p4428-russell-gall-243-ackley-improved.html

I wouldn't use an AI of any sort for hunting as I want to be be able to reload quickly. Without the 260 Rem (and moderator), these deer wouldn't be in the larder.
Regards JCS

 

[dennisinaz]

I didn't see a single response in favor of either of them so I don't see how you gleaned and "overwhelming consensus" out of this thread!!

Having shot both and having two 260AIs, I would certainly favor it over the 280 AI for what you are wanting to do. The 260AI is amazingly easy to find loads for and in my experience, more accurate than the parent round. I rechambered a couple of them and compared before and after.

For 100 yard shooting, you will have far better luck with a 108 Lapua than you will with the long range bullets you suggested. I certainly don't see the point in a 140 @ 100 yds when shooting groups. I have found out to 500 yds, the 108 Lapua is hard to beat with anything else I have tried. I have pushed them to 3350 with ease. but best accuracy is a little lower than that.

As for hunting with them, my 700 Mtn rifle has a detachable mag that feeds them quite well- certainly enough to hunting wtih. In fact, I carried it on several bear hunts last year as my guide gun and didn't feel hampered at all. I stoked it with 140 Sierra game kings which were grouping about .5 MOA (3 shots) from a Mtn rifle contour!

 

[mattri]

Its an interesting question for sure.

Point blank target shooting and long range hunting are so far removed from each other that a rifle to do both would be an exercise in compromise.

If you're looking to stay under .5 at 100 yards, a 6ppc, 6br, 30br would be the obvious route as others have mentioned. No reason to go with a case anywhere near as big as the 260, let alone a 280.

Depending on what "long range" means to you in a hunting application anything from a 7mm STW, one of the RUMs or 338 Edge, 338 Lapua up to your Cheytacs. Not really 100 yard plinkers.

By all means keep us posted on what you decide and why, we've all had to pick one round over another at some point.

 

[CaptainMal]

Pulled the brake off my 260AI to see two things:

1. Would it shoot better without the brake?

2. Is there a major recoil difference?

Answer to both questions is ..."NO".

Not much difference with the brake and the gun shoots awful with or without the brake. Only way I can barely get under 1" groups is to use 140 A-Max touching. That's not a hunting bullet and touching could pull it out while hunting. Built a different rifle in 7MM Mag. It shoots.