Chinese 10-10

[BoydAllen]

Last week a friend sent me a new in box RCBS 10-10 that was made in China. Since then I have sharpened the knife edges, adjusted the weights in the pan holder so that the scale is perfectly level when zeroed, and done some work on the long leaf spring that the damper blade hits when the pan is taken off of the scale so that the beam is supported in a higher position. The workmanship appears to be excellent, with the exception of one detail, the magnets in the damping system are weaker than those of my 30sih year old version of the same scale. The beam, pan holder and pan assemblies interchange so I was able to compare one scale's damping with the others, and verify that the difference is the magnets. This does not make the scale unusable, but it does slow the damping process. After checking with Ohaus, and being told that the scale is out of production with no parts available, I decided to try something on my own to strengthen the magnetism of the damping system. I have ordered some small cylindrical neodymium magnets that should hold themselves onto the bottoms of the existing magnets, and increase the field of the damping system so that it is stronger than that of my old scale...I hope. I ordered four of the magnets at a cost of $10 and change, with most of that being postage. It will be interesting to see if this works, but of course there are no guarantees.

In the course of my research about this scale, I spoke with a very knowledgeable person at RCBS about the history of that model. It seems that after years of making it in this country, without telling RCBS, Ohaus switched production to Mexico. According to him, the quality of those units was not good. After that production was switched to China, again without notification. At some point after that happened the model was discontinued.

The last chapter is that RCBS made direct contact with a Chinese manufacturer and has a couple of well designed balance scales manufactured to their designs. I have looked over these scale on the internet, one (the more expensive of the two) while on the phone with the RCBS technician, and I think that it and the other one's are good designs that appear to be well made (although I cannot speak for the strength of their damping magnets) The only drawback is that neither has a built-in cover. They do both have agate bearings. I like the designs, and they are excellent values, with the more expensive one being a three poise design that lists for $125. (as compared with the last price of the 10-10 before being discontinued, which was twice that) An additional note: On that scale, the mid weight poise design has corrected a slight shortcoming in earlier designs so that both sides rest in notches making it more secure as to position on the beam while in use. The new designs allow the scale to be used with the pan on either the users right or left, and a good amount of experience and thought appears to have gone into the designs. Based on the scale that I am working with I would not be at all reluctant to try one of the new RCBS balance scales, particularly given the high quality of their customer service, which could not be better.

 

[jerseyjoe]

Thanks for the review.

I'm happy with my M-5, but the info and history you provide can be useful.

You would think with China's monopoly on rare earth metals, they could afford to

put good magnets in their scales

 

[hoz53]

Last week a friend sent me a new in box RCBS 10-10 that was made in China. Since then I have sharpened the knife edges, adjusted the weights in the pan holder so that the scale is perfectly level when zeroed, and done some work on the long leaf spring that the damper blade hits when the pan is taken off of the scale so that the beam is supported in a higher position. The workmanship appears to be excellent, with the exception of one detail, the magnets in the damping system are weaker than those of my 30sih year old version of the same scale. The beam, pan holder and pan assemblies interchange so I was able to compare one scale's damping with the others, and verify that the difference is the magnets. This does not make the scale unusable, but it does slow the damping process. After checking with Ohaus, and being told that the scale is out of production with no parts available, I decided to try something on my own to strengthen the magnetism of the damping system. I have ordered some small cylindrical neodymium magnets that should hold themselves onto the bottoms of the existing magnets, and increase the field of the damping system so that it is stronger than that of my old scale...I hope. I ordered four of the magnets at a cost of $10 and change, with most of that being postage. It will be interesting to see if this works, but of course there are no guarantees.

In the course of my research about this scale, I spoke with a very knowledgeable person at RCBS about the history of that model. It seems that after years of making it in this country, without telling RCBS, Ohaus switched production to Mexico. According to him, the quality of those units was not good. After that production was switched to China, again without notification. At some point after that happened the model was discontinued.

The last chapter is that RCBS made direct contact with a Chinese manufacturer and has a couple of well designed balance scales manufactured to their designs. I have looked over these scale on the internet, one (the more expensive of the two) while on the phone with the RCBS technician, and I think that it and the other one's are good designs that appear to be well made (although I cannot speak for the strength of their damping magnets) The only drawback is that neither has a built-in cover. They do both have agate bearings. I like the designs, and they are excellent values, with the more expensive one being a three poise design that lists for $125. (as compared with the last price of the 10-10 before being discontinued, which was twice that) An additional note: On that scale, the mid weight poise design has corrected a slight shortcoming in earlier designs so that both sides rest in notches making it more secure as to position on the beam while in use. The new designs allow the scale to be used with the pan on either the users right or left, and a good amount of experience and thought appears to have gone into the designs. Based on the scale that I am working with I would not be at all reluctant to try one of the new RCBS balance scales, particularly given the high quality of their customer service, which could not be better.

Thanks for the post Boyd. Hopefully the fact that these chinese made 10/10s are good quality scales will help anyone looking for a good beam scale.

 

[1066]

Thanks for the post Boyd. Hopefully the fact that these chinese made 10/10s are good quality scales will help anyone looking for a good beam scale.

Just to make it clear - The 10/10 was dropped around 2 years ago so no longer available, it was replaced by the M1000. The 502/505 was dropped at the same time and replaced by the M500.

The new scales have exactly the same floating agate bearings and knife edges as the previous RCBS scales.

I've not come across the M1000 yet but have played with a couple of M500's. They work well and damping works well.

The M500, although it has a cast metal base, is very light - this can easily be overcome by adding some weight.

The fact that the beam is printed on both sides means that the beam is well away from the zero pointer to allow for clearance. If not read at eye level could lead to parallax error. Easily overcome by using a pone or camera system.

 

[Hondo64d]

Last week a friend sent me a new in box RCBS 10-10 that was made in China. Since then I have sharpened the knife edges, adjusted the weights in the pan holder so that the scale is perfectly level when zeroed, and done some work on the long leaf spring that the damper blade hits when the pan is taken off of the scale so that the beam is supported in a higher position. The workmanship appears to be excellent, with the exception of one detail, the magnets in the damping system are weaker than those of my 30sih year old version of the same scale. The beam, pan holder and pan assemblies interchange so I was able to compare one scale's damping with the others, and verify that the difference is the magnets. This does not make the scale unusable, but it does slow the damping process. After checking with Ohaus, and being told that the scale is out of production with no parts available, I decided to try something on my own to strengthen the magnetism of the damping system. I have ordered some small cylindrical neodymium magnets that should hold themselves onto the bottoms of the existing magnets, and increase the field of the damping system so that it is stronger than that of my old scale...I hope. I ordered four of the magnets at a cost of $10 and change, with most of that being postage. It will be interesting to see if this works, but of course there are no guarantees.

In the course of my research about this scale, I spoke with a very knowledgeable person at RCBS about the history of that model. It seems that after years of making it in this country, without telling RCBS, Ohaus switched production to Mexico. According to him, the quality of those units was not good. After that production was switched to China, again without notification. At some point after that happened the model was discontinued.

The last chapter is that RCBS made direct contact with a Chinese manufacturer and has a couple of well designed balance scales manufactured to their designs. I have looked over these scale on the internet, one (the more expensive of the two) while on the phone with the RCBS technician, and I think that it and the other one's are good designs that appear to be well made (although I cannot speak for the strength of their damping magnets) The only drawback is that neither has a built-in cover. They do both have agate bearings. I like the designs, and they are excellent values, with the more expensive one being a three poise design that lists for $125. (as compared with the last price of the 10-10 before being discontinued, which was twice that) An additional note: On that scale, the mid weight poise design has corrected a slight shortcoming in earlier designs so that both sides rest in notches making it more secure as to position on the beam while in use. The new designs allow the scale to be used with the pan on either the users right or left, and a good amount of experience and thought appears to have gone into the designs. Based on the scale that I am working with I would not be at all reluctant to try one of the new RCBS balance scales, particularly given the high quality of their customer service, which could not be better.

I was very interested in the RCBS M1000 but when I talked to Scott Parker about them, he was less than complimentary. Wouldn't even tune one...

John

 

[danny]

Last week a friend sent me a new in box RCBS 10-10 that was made in China. Since then I have sharpened the knife edges, adjusted the weights in the pan holder so that the scale is perfectly level when zeroed, and done some work on the long leaf spring that the damper blade hits when the pan is taken off of the scale so that the beam is supported in a higher position. The workmanship appears to be excellent, with the exception of one detail, the magnets in the damping system are weaker than those of my 30sih year old version of the same scale. The beam, pan holder and pan assemblies interchange so I was able to compare one scale's damping with the others, and verify that the difference is the magnets. This does not make the scale unusable, but it does slow the damping process. After checking with Ohaus, and being told that the scale is out of production with no parts available, I decided to try something on my own to strengthen the magnetism of the damping system. I have ordered some small cylindrical neodymium magnets that should hold themselves onto the bottoms of the existing magnets, and increase the field of the damping system so that it is stronger than that of my old scale...I hope. I ordered four of the magnets at a cost of $10 and change, with most of that being postage. It will be interesting to see if this works, but of course there are no guarantees.

In the course of my research about this scale, I spoke with a very knowledgeable person at RCBS about the history of that model. It seems that after years of making it in this country, without telling RCBS, Ohaus switched production to Mexico. According to him, the quality of those units was not good. After that production was switched to China, again without notification. At some point after that happened the model was discontinued.

The last chapter is that RCBS made direct contact with a Chinese manufacturer and has a couple of well designed balance scales manufactured to their designs. I have looked over these scale on the internet, one (the more expensive of the two) while on the phone with the RCBS technician, and I think that it and the other one's are good designs that appear to be well made (although I cannot speak for the strength of their damping magnets) The only drawback is that neither has a built-in cover. They do both have agate bearings. I like the designs, and they are excellent values, with the more expensive one being a three poise design that lists for $125. (as compared with the last price of the 10-10 before being discontinued, which was twice that) An additional note: On that scale, the mid weight poise design has corrected a slight shortcoming in earlier designs so that both sides rest in notches making it more secure as to position on the beam while in use. The new designs allow the scale to be used with the pan on either the users right or left, and a good amount of experience and thought appears to have gone into the designs. Based on the scale that I am working with I would not be at all reluctant to try one of the new RCBS balance scales, particularly given the high quality of their customer service, which could not be better.

Do Chinese production 10•10 scales have the beam knives sharpened with a very small bevel on the very edge like USA production scales, or like the Ohaus marked 10•10 units that are sharpened without the small bevel?

Thanks,

Danny

 

[BoydAllen]

Do Chinese production 10•10 scales have the beam knives sharpened with a very small bevel on the very edge like USA production scales, or like the Ohaus marked 10•10 units that are sharpened without the small bevel?

Thanks,

Danny

To be honest It was hard to tell. There was a large primary bevel and their was some modification of that very near to the actual edge. I sharpened that until the marks went from the edge well into the primary bevel. I would say that I made the bevel of the edge more acute. I did the work by hand, more crudely than I would have liked, but that has been the case for all of my scales and by cut and try they have all been vastly improved in their return to zero and sensitivity. The most daunting thing that I did was to take the slight bow out of the main beam, that had the copper damping fin well off center between the magnets, especially knowing that there are no factory replacement parts and observing that it is likely a die casting.

 

[danny]

To be honest It was hard to tell. There was a large primary bevel and their was some modification of that very near to the actual edge. I sharpened that until the marks went from the edge well into the primary bevel. I would say that I made the bevel of the edge more acute. I did the work by hand, more crudely than I would have liked, but that has been the case for all of my scales and by cut and try they have all been vastly improved in their return to zero and sensitivity. The most daunting thing that I did was to take the slight bow out of the main beam, that had the copper damping fin well off center between the magnets, especially knowing that there are no factory replacement parts and observing that it is likely a die casting.

Thanks for the report. So far, I have avoided trying to sharpen the RCBS marked units with the primary bevel you mention, and that also have the small secondary bevel right at the edge that you sharpened. I have only tried on the Ohaus marked units that have only the primary bevel which forms the actual edge.

Danny

 

[hoz53]

I was very interested in the RCBS M1000 but when I talked to Scott Parker about them, he was less than complimentary. Wouldn't even tune one...

John

I dont think Scott has ever been willing to tune a reloading scale that was not made in the US. I dont know if that is because he wants to support US made or he considers any scale made outside the US as junk. What did he tell you about the RCBS M1000? We are quick to call anything Chinese made junk but as the OP proved thats not necessarily the case. Apparently the Chinese made 10/10 scales are as good quality wise as the US made ones. Id like to see a quality made beam scale thats currently made and available to purchase new. We should give some of these currently produced scales a chance instead of writing them off before we have even seen one.

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks for the report. So far, I have avoided trying to sharpen the RCBS marked units with the primary bevel you mention, and that also have the small secondary bevel right at the edge that you sharpened. I have only tried on the Ohaus marked units that have only the primary bevel which forms the actual edge.

Danny

Call me reckless but I have little use for any scale that has return to zero or sensitivity issues, and I have never had one that did not benefit from a little work on the edges. of course this has been my first experience with one that was not US made.

 

[K22]

I purchased my Ohaus 10-10 in 1970 and I'm still using it. I check the accuracy with analytical weights every 6 months and it's within + .01 grain above 25 grains and + .015 grains under 25 grains. I've never had it tuned or worked the knife edges but I do clean them peroidically.

 

[Rsadams]

Last week a friend sent me a new in box RCBS 10-10 that was made in China. Since then I have sharpened the knife edges, adjusted the weights in the pan holder so that the scale is perfectly level when zeroed, and done some work on the long leaf spring that the damper blade hits when the pan is taken off of the scale so that the beam is supported in a higher position. The workmanship appears to be excellent, with the exception of one detail, the magnets in the damping system are weaker than those of my 30sih year old version of the same scale. The beam, pan holder and pan assemblies interchange so I was able to compare one scale's damping with the others, and verify that the difference is the magnets. This does not make the scale unusable, but it does slow the damping process. After checking with Ohaus, and being told that the scale is out of production with no parts available, I decided to try something on my own to strengthen the magnetism of the damping system. I have ordered some small cylindrical neodymium magnets that should hold themselves onto the bottoms of the existing magnets, and increase the field of the damping system so that it is stronger than that of my old scale...I hope. I ordered four of the magnets at a cost of $10 and change, with most of that being postage. It will be interesting to see if this works, but of course there are no guarantees.

In the course of my research about this scale, I spoke with a very knowledgeable person at RCBS about the history of that model. It seems that after years of making it in this country, without telling RCBS, Ohaus switched production to Mexico. According to him, the quality of those units was not good. After that production was switched to China, again without notification. At some point after that happened the model was discontinued.

The last chapter is that RCBS made direct contact with a Chinese manufacturer and has a couple of well designed balance scales manufactured to their designs. I have looked over these scale on the internet, one (the more expensive of the two) while on the phone with the RCBS technician, and I think that it and the other one's are good designs that appear to be well made (although I cannot speak for the strength of their damping magnets) The only drawback is that neither has a built-in cover. They do both have agate bearings. I like the designs, and they are excellent values, with the more expensive one being a three poise design that lists for $125. (as compared with the last price of the 10-10 before being discontinued, which was twice that) An additional note: On that scale, the mid weight poise design has corrected a slight shortcoming in earlier designs so that both sides rest in notches making it more secure as to position on the beam while in use. The new designs allow the scale to be used with the pan on either the users right or left, and a good amount of experience and thought appears to have gone into the designs. Based on the scale that I am working with I would not be at all reluctant to try one of the new RCBS balance scales, particularly given the high quality of their customer service, which could not be better.

I have one and it works perfect.. The dampening magnets on mine don't work well but that's ok becouse it has been super accurate , and I don't mind the time it takes to settle altho others may.. It was a replacement scale sent to me by rcbs to replace a total crap 505 that came with my kit....

I have never said much about it becouse I know you guys have some really nice scales and I didn't think anyone would believe me.. I do like mine , I don't shoot the compition some of you do but for me I have had great luck with mine.. I don't are for the made in China anything, but once in a blue moon you find something that works...

Thanks for the review....
Shawn

 

[BoydAllen]

I dont think Scott has ever been willing to tune a reloading scale that was not made in the US. I dont know if that is because he wants to support US made or he considers any scale made outside the US as junk. What did he tell you about the RCBS M1000? We are quick to call anything Chinese made junk but as the OP proved thats not necessarily the case. Apparently the Chinese made 10/10 scales are as good quality wise as the US made ones. Id like to see a quality made beam scale thats currently made and available to purchase new. We should give some of these currently produced scales a chance instead of writing them off before we have even seen one.

Given that the price is not all that steep, I would not thinik

I have one and it works perfect.. The dampening magnets on mine don't work well but that's ok becouse it has been super accurate , and I don't mind the time it takes to settle altho others may.. It was a replacement scale sent to me by rcbs to replace a total crap 505 that can with my kit....
Just out of curiosity, can you tell where that 505 was made? The reason that I ask is that some time back I bought a used one and was able to tune it up so that it works quite well. I think that mine is old enough to be sure that is was made in the US.
I have never said much about it becouse I know you guys have some really nice scales and I didn't think anyone would believe me.. I do like mine , I don't shoot the compition some of you do but for me I have had great luck with mine.. I don't are for the made in China anything, but once in a blue moon you find something that works...

Thanks for the review....
Shawn

 

[Rsadams]

Given that the price is not all that steep, I would not thinik

It was a China made 505 I believe.. It came with a rcbs rockchuker kit I bought a few years ago.. It was bad rcbs didn't even want it back they told me to bend the beam and throw it away.. It wouldn't stay zeroed or weigh the same twice the workmanship was very bad... My 10/10 they sent as a replacement was sent to their QC before shipping. They might have tuned it up a bit? It does work very well...

I think you were asking about the 505 boyd?? It didn't pop up I just saw it in the quote..

 

[BoydAllen]

Yes, the 505.

 

[hoz53]

Yes, the 505.

So you were talking about the 505 price not being steep? The RCBS M1000 price is not bad at 125.00 It does look like a dragon or something that is made in china. I wonder how good it would be. Ill post a new thread.

 

[BoydAllen]

You know, after looking them over, I think that I might go with the 500. I like simple designs.

 

[hoz53]

You know, after looking them over, I think that I might go with the 500. I like simple designs.

I agree with that ill take a look at the 500 to

 

[Rsadams]

I have thought of getting another scale a redding etc. But I sit and read reviews and they are so hit and miss on everything I have just stuck with my 10/10.. A lot of bad reviews on products are user related you can kinda tell some people don't know how to use or setup a product or they don't even read the instructions and they say it doesn't work and leave a bad review.

But if you're look at different places not just the manufacturer page you start to see patterns.. A good company that backs their products chimes in and tells people were they went wrong.. I will say upfront a company with bad customer service has lost my trust and money.. Hard for me to even say this but I would rather deal with that China made scale but have the customer service of rcbs than a American made scale and a company that won't even answer the phone.. No matter were anything is made anymore the problem is always quality control.. So it always comes down to customer service...

One of the things that gets me is if these scales now suck compared to the scales of 10 or 15 years ago? How horrible will the scales be 10 or 15 years from now? When we look back and say darn I wish I would have kept that scale...lol

 

[hoz53]

I have thought of getting another scale a redding etc. But I sit and read reviews and they are so hit and miss on everything I have just stuck with my 10/10.. A lot of bad reviews on products are user related you can kinda tell some people don't know how to use or setup a product or they don't even read the instructions and they say it doesn't work and leave a bad review.

But if you're look at different places not just the manufacturer page you start to see patterns.. A good company that backs their products chimes in and tells people were they went wrong.. I will say upfront a company with bad customer service has lost my trust and money.. Hard for me to even say this but I would rather deal with that China made scale but have the customer service of rcbs than a American made scale and a company that won't even answer the phone.. No matter were anything is made anymore the problem is always quality control.. So it always comes down to customer service...

One of the things that gets me is if these scales now suck compared to the scales of 10 or 15 years ago? How horrible will the scales be 10 or 15 years from now? When we look back and say darn I wish I would have kept that scale...lol

i agree with you on all this--Id much rather buy US made and I go out of my way to do that but I wont put up with lousy customer service.

I had a Redding and planned for it to be my last beam scale but I hated the flat pan holder and Reddings attitude about a redesign was ". If you dont like it go away". Id try the redding and see if you like the pan holder before you buy one.

I read alot of the info I can find before I buy things and it does help but nothings like finding out for yourself IMO.

It seems we often get caught in the idea that the older was better when in reality that isnt always true.