IBTL....
it’s tragic that it happened, but it fires me up that the POS was taken care of quickly and appropriately.
it’s tragic that it happened, but it fires me up that the POS was taken care of quickly and appropriately.
Check out this video of the Church shooting in TX this morning.
- Thread starter Mulligan
- Start date
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
Since the church shooting in Sutherland Springs a couple of years ago, the various churches in Texas at least, have changed their attitude about having guns in the church.
As an example, the Diocese of the Houston/Galveston area called in all their Priests and told them they needed to plan for just this kind of incident. Our local priest now, is a concealed carry guy and is armed at all times. He has quietly gotten with other CC members and have them positioned around the church during services.
Another example of the attitude change there, is that our club use to rent the parish hall for some of our meetings. One priest was a club member. A new priest came in to take over and he promptly stopped us from renting the parish hall because we are a gun club. The priest that was a member of the club, left within the next year. Maybe it was because of the new elder priest and his no gun attitude or it was time for him to advance to another church.
As an example, the Diocese of the Houston/Galveston area called in all their Priests and told them they needed to plan for just this kind of incident. Our local priest now, is a concealed carry guy and is armed at all times. He has quietly gotten with other CC members and have them positioned around the church during services.
Another example of the attitude change there, is that our club use to rent the parish hall for some of our meetings. One priest was a club member. A new priest came in to take over and he promptly stopped us from renting the parish hall because we are a gun club. The priest that was a member of the club, left within the next year. Maybe it was because of the new elder priest and his no gun attitude or it was time for him to advance to another church.
You guys talk about his like it is just a walk in the park, and all rainbows and lollipops. IT IS NOT. When my church added a Saturday service I was asked to move to the new service and become an usher. I was happy to do this, and found out one of the pastors who was X navy carried a glock at all times. Soon I was a member of security, what ever that was. No rules, no training just make this place safe. One Saturday afternoon some big guy in a hoody walks in with a back pack and sits down near the front. After all are seated the head usher and the pastor tell me to watch this guy they don't know who he is. I go sit behind him and watch closely. In the middle of the service he gets up and heads toward the stage, me right behind hand on pistol. I am so close to pulling pistol, and very nervous. Just a millisecond before he steps on stage be starts talking and it becomes obvious he is part of the skit the youth are preforming on stage today. None of the staff had any idea he was part of the program. I turn and walk back to my seat as if nothing has ever happened. Pulling my fun in front of the whole congregation would have been bad, shooting this kid would have been so bad words won't cover it.
I'm considering getting a CC, and I see there are real life lessons to be taken from this video. Looking again, the perp pulls his shotgun out at the 11 second mark , the S.G. at the far left reaches for his two seconds later, and drops the perp 4 seconds after that at 17 seconds into the video.
That's six seconds from start to finish, and then watch all the guys with CC's come out of the woodwork. The first CC guy pulls his at the 22 second mark after first ducking for cover.
Training, training, training. Or put another way, chance favors the prepared mind.
If I do get a CC, but am not prepared to use the gun properly, I'm afraid I'll end up like the first S.G. who was ill prepared, drawing too slow and too obviously. I'm guessing he knew he was facing certain death.
Where does one go to get practical training on how and when to deploy? If that doesn't become second nature, it'll just make me a target.
That's six seconds from start to finish, and then watch all the guys with CC's come out of the woodwork. The first CC guy pulls his at the 22 second mark after first ducking for cover.
Training, training, training. Or put another way, chance favors the prepared mind.
If I do get a CC, but am not prepared to use the gun properly, I'm afraid I'll end up like the first S.G. who was ill prepared, drawing too slow and too obviously. I'm guessing he knew he was facing certain death.
Where does one go to get practical training on how and when to deploy? If that doesn't become second nature, it'll just make me a target.
My brother in law is on a church security team. I am a firearms instructor for a large West coast firearms training school. He brought a pistol to my house and asked me to look at it. Great now all you need is training! He shot 50 rds already before he came out and said that was enough. wow remind me never to attend when your there or I set behind you to be safe.
If you are going to be on a security team GET TRAINING! To draw and shoot a head shot on demand as this gentlemen did does not come without training or divine intervention you pick.
If you are going to be on a security team GET TRAINING! To draw and shoot a head shot on demand as this gentlemen did does not come without training or divine intervention you pick.
R.Morehouse
Gold $$ Contributor
I am in the Devine Intervention camp concerning that shot.........
we have 2-3 guys walk around our church with open carried handguns. They are either cops or private security guys who happen to attend our church. Hoping the presence is enough to deter someone.
Honestly, I’m sure bad stuff would happen all the time back in the day but we were never exposed to it. The internet, 24/7 news, smart phones, and mass transit have made the world a much smaller place.
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DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
I know a church in San Antonio that has the lighting and video guys with AR's in the control both. The ushers are armed with pistols. The church leaders in Texas are having classes taught to them on security practices.
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
Our priest has even given talks to make sure we all know where the exits are and church doors are locked as soon as mass starts. At every mass, there is an armed active or retired officer. The priest has asked for other parishioners to please not bring in concealed weapons. Well, in my mind, I don't know if that person has ever had to use their weapon in the line of duty. I guess what I'm trying to say is...I don't know if they have ever been in such a stressful situation. Not beating my chest but, I have. Things go bad right away and you don't have time to think. So, I continue to carry and not say anything.
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
When I went to the CCW course, I also decided to shoot some IDPA matches. It helped.
I also wondered what I would do if faced with the unthinkable. Shooting IDPA matches was the first time I had ever shot at a human silhouette target. I paused the first time.
I will say, if you have not read the book "ON Killing", I recommend you do so if you carry.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J90F8W2/?tag=accuratescom-20
The study behind the book reveals, only 20% of the US population can actually pull the trigger when facing the enemy without serious training. This is looking at several wars across the decades.
CW
I also wondered what I would do if faced with the unthinkable. Shooting IDPA matches was the first time I had ever shot at a human silhouette target. I paused the first time.
I will say, if you have not read the book "ON Killing", I recommend you do so if you carry.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J90F8W2/?tag=accuratescom-20
The study behind the book reveals, only 20% of the US population can actually pull the trigger when facing the enemy without serious training. This is looking at several wars across the decades.
CW
That first man shot drawing his weapon on the shooter is a hero, too. At that exact instant, it doesn’t look like a shot had been fired yet, and the gunpoint command to “drop it” is so ingrained in us.
JayHHI6818
Silver $$ Contributor
Hope the church heals from this tragedy. Saw this posted on another site.
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TAJ45
Silver $$ Contributor
Several in our church carry. All have a standing invite to come to my place to practice or rcv instruction - no pressure. One is an OK shot, the other I would cold cock and disarm. Napoleon, short man syndrome, refuses a fun afternoon banging steel but we lunch periodically after service. One shot out of three on the silhouette is plenty good at 10 paces.
I play bridge w two groups, one "older ladies" 3x monthly. Two have concealed permits. They too have standing invite.......no takers BUT really proud of whatever it is they have rolling around w the lipstick, keys, gloss etc in the purse.
Lead the hosses to H2O ........
Ohh yes please , I carry everyday , am ex leo and work at a gun range.... Shooting a box once a month would be better than nothing I guess... I shoot 2-3 at least a week , been shooting 3 times last week and am fixing to go again now... Some of the pistol groups I see are horrible , more of a shotgun pattern than a group because they just don't practice.... Even some of the range officers that shoot rifles or shotgun ( skeet ) two or three days a week never shoot their carry pistols.... I have been around them for years and never seen them fire one pistol round... This has always worried me about people that have CHLs , maybe they need to add at least a yearly qualifying test... I shoot more in a day than some people shoot in a year and I seriously hope those people are never blasting away in a room with me while their scared.. Remember you're accountable for every round fired no matter the situation.... Thanks for bringing this up it is a real problem...
carlsbad
Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
Rsadams,
I admit I don't shoot pistol enough. I am focused on F-open shooting and put all my time there. Of course I don't get to carry a pistol here in CA. But I do maintain proficiency for home use and I've made a note to myself to take my pistol to the range with me monthly and stop by the pistol range. I don't want to find fault but some of the folks in the video were not as practiced as they should have been. --Jerry
I admit I don't shoot pistol enough. I am focused on F-open shooting and put all my time there. Of course I don't get to carry a pistol here in CA. But I do maintain proficiency for home use and I've made a note to myself to take my pistol to the range with me monthly and stop by the pistol range. I don't want to find fault but some of the folks in the video were not as practiced as they should have been. --Jerry
Yes sir , I invite many people to go to the range with me and have very few takers but they all have pistols that they intend to protect the families with... Plus the ones that do go barely go once a year.... One of my friends actually admitted to putting the bullets backwards in the magazine till he cought himself... He leaves the pistol unloaded , mags unloaded and hidden , he gas go kids at home.... I explained to him maybe if someone breaks in they will give a time out while he gets everything ready to go.... He has so far in years fired 100 rounds... Good luck...Several in our church carry. All have a standing invite to come to my place to practice or rcv instruction - no pressure. One is an OK shot, the other I would cold cock and disarm. Napoleon, short man syndrome, refuses a fun afternoon banging steel but we lunch periodically after service. One shot out of three on the silhouette is plenty good at 10 paces.
I play bridge w two groups, one "older ladies" 3x monthly. Two have concealed permits. They too have standing invite.......no takers BUT really proud of whatever it is they have rolling around w the lipstick, keys, gloss etc in the purse.
Lead the hosses to H2O ........
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