Change the F-Class National Championship CoF?

[dskogman]

IMHO 300 and even 600 we be more challenging if they reduced the size of the scoring rings again or make X’s worth more say 1 1/2 pts.

 

[JeffT]

Not even close. That was 2011. I was on the very west end (little end) the last day of SOA shooting at 1000. Last 10 shots I held on a rock between targets or on the hospital 7 ring and shot 7's on the other side of my target. WOW!!!! A 7 and I was happy to have it! Raton handed me my ass a couple times that day, in a couple different ways. You might say it was a "Learning Experience". Great place to choot, bring your "Big Boy" panties.....

You won by being squaded with Mr. Brewer. He was a class act that was fun to be around

 

[7MM-RAHM]

There is a movement afoot to change the Course of Fire (CoF) of the NRA F-Class National Championships by removing the 300 & 500 yard stages so all shooting will be done at 600 yards.

Why you ask?

There are a number of reasons:
If this is done all the shooting will take place at the most challenging distance. By removing the other two yard lines the shooters experience will be enhanced by shortening the shooting day and reducing shooter fatigue. You won’t have to haul your gear from yard line to yard line. The hosting clubs will save money and effort since they will only have to prep frames for one distance reducing their prep efforts and cost them less money. Who knows perhaps the entry fees will go down.

At every competitors meeting I have attended after the mid-range championships the majority of the competitors voted to make this change and the NRA HP Committee has failed to make the change. That is the reason for this petition. If you are a mid-range F-Class competitor and in favor of the this action print out the attached file, sign it along with your fellow competitors and mail it to the NRA at the address noted on the petition.

There needs to be a separate nationals for mid range and long range. For several years the long range shooters used the mid range as a warm up to tune their rifles with no desire or care to win mid range. Winning mid range for a long range guy is just a bonus and prep for long range.
More mid range shooters would show up to shoot a mid range prone match if they knew that serious mid range competitors would be there. More competition for the desired discipline brings in better competitors.
In conclusion, there needs to be a separate nationals for mid range to bring in more serious competition. #DWAYNEDRAGGOOBOBSEBOLTPATSCULLY

 

[XTR]

There needs to be a separate nationals for mid range and long range. For several years the long range shooters used the mid range as a warm up to tune their rifles with no desire or care to win mid range. Winning mid range for a long range guy is just a bonus and prep for long range.
More mid range shooters would show up to shoot a mid range prone match if they knew that serious mid range competitors would be there. More competition for the desired discipline brings in better competitors.
In conclusion, there needs to be a separate nationals for mid range to bring in more serious competition. #DWAYNEDRAGGOOBOBSEBOLTPATSCULLY

There was a separate Mid Range championship in 2013, 2014. It was shot on Rodriguez Range at Camp Perry, and was not particularly well attended for a National but there were a good number of shooters there in 2014 when I shot it. In 2013 it was the week before the FCNC/FCWC at Raton. Not many F class shooters were willing or able to shoot a match the week before going to New Mexico for a week. There was also a long range Regional shot alongside the NRA HP championships. In 2014 I think there were 4 or 5 of us competing in the regional. After that the NRA sent it out to be shot before the Long Range.

After 2014 the F class portion was tied to the Long Range FCNC. The Club hosting has to host both, at least when the NRA published the change after the 2014 matches it was a requirement. Look back at the discussions.

As it stands today MR is it's own championship, it's just contested in the days before the LR. Anyone not showing up to compete is missing out.

 

[coldboreshot]

Well, let's see...first it starts with the Etargets and the exclusion of the seven second delay feature in the system permitting those shooters to send 20 rounds down range in three and a half minutes. Now, there is a movement to eliminate 300 and 500 yards from Midrange. I guess the next complaint will be that no one can tolerate lying on the ground anymore so we will move our equipment to the benchtop for more convenience.

HMMMMM... where have I seen this discipline of competition before??? Oh, that's right. I may just avoid all of these complaints, petitions and movements and revert back to shooting strictly sling rifle.
Is it just me or does anyone else see where the sport of F class is heading???

And if you feel the need to complete the match in the shortest amount of time possible, then stay home and hire someone to shoot it for you.

Perhaps the only movement all of this is creating for me is in my bowels.

Wooh! that's better. Yes, I am in favor of leaving the traditional 300 and 500 in Midrange matches.

 

[Jdne5b]

So.. is it too late to change 2018 Nationals to all 600yds? Asking for a friend.

 

[coldboreshot]

I'm going to take a very wild guess, but I would go as far to believe that the majority of individuals who may be in favor of eliminating the 300 and 500 yard lines from these midrange matches are already comfortable with the records they have set at these distances.

 

[Lbart]

So.. is it too late to change 2018 Nationals to all 600yds? Asking for a friend.

YES

 

[Lbart]

As the petition is written it would only remove 300 & 500 yards from the Mid-Range NATIONAL Championships. Records could still be set for 300 & 500 in other registored matches.

 

[Lbart]

I'm going to take a very wild guess, but I would go as far to believe that the majority of individuals who may be in favor of eliminating the 300 and 500 yard lines from these midrange matches are already comfortable with the records they have set at these distances.

I shoot to enjoy myself and try to win, not to set records to receive a piece of paper. But each to his own.

 

[ngb1787]

Honestly, I would like to see a shoot off at the end of each match with the winner of each relay to make things really fair.

 

[johnnyi]

Removing comments so I do not hijack this thread. My apologies

 

[Lbart]

Johnny,
The petition only applies to the Mid-Range Nat's which is just FO & F/TR. Most of the major matches I attend already do a lot of squadding just like or similar to what you suggest. You are never going to be able to get everything equal no matter how you squad. More work for the stat office is something that is not needed. The best course IMO is squad by class 1st day, squad by match rank 2 day on. Rotate FO & F/TR as 1st relays each day.

BTW, mail those petitions in to NRA! See 1st post attachments!

 

[johnnyi]

Johnny,
The petition only applies to the Mid-Range Nat's which is just FO & F/TR. Most of the major matches I attend already do a lot of squadding just like or similar to what you suggest. You are never going to be able to get everything equal no matter how you squad. More work for the stat office is something that is not needed. The best course IMO is squad by class 1st day, squad by match rank 2 day on. Rotate FO & F/TR as 1st relays each day.

BTW, mail those petitions in to NRA! See 1st post attachments!

removing comments so I don’t hijack the post. My apologies Larry.!

 

[coldboreshot]

Larry, you offer a valid point. I too want to be able to enjoy myself as well but I also do not believe that investing the time, travel ,and expense from rifle to equipment is only worth second place. We all know the expense versus reward is is very broad so sometimes a piece of paper is a very satifying reward. But you are correct sir, to each his own.

 

[mahalan]

I see two very good reasons to keep the 300, 500, and 600 yard format and no great reason to change.

The first very good reason to keep the format is for F-TR. Right now, 223's are very competitive with 308's in midrange. If midrange gets rid of 300 and 500 yards, F-TR becomes a 308 match and shooting a 223 becomes obsolete.

The second very good reason is that right now mid range F Class sits in a good place in the middle of PRS, benchrest and long range F Class. For guys like me who are too old to run around a course lugging their gear, F Class is preferable to PRS. I'm still able to carry my gear to the line and pull targets so I'm not ready for the nursing home or the benchrest crowd yet. My wind reading still requires lots of work so midrange lets me be somewhat more competitive than I am at long range. It's easy to pooh pooh the 300 and 500 yard stages in midrange but I've seen lots of shooters who struggle with those while acing the 600 because that's all they practice.

 

[LRCampos]

.

If 300 and 500 yards are eliminated from the NATIONALS, it means it will be irrelevant at any other levels (state and local) in a few years. It is what is happening at 800 and 900y, that was eliminated from the NATIONALS too.

There will be much less people willing to shoot 300 and 500 because it is no more a NATIONAL match.

Also, there are dozens of clubs, specially around the world, that does not have a way to make longer ranges and with 300 and/or 500 yards, get people shooting F-Class.

I prefer to have 300, 500 and 600y at Mid Range Nationals, as it is.

My 2 cents.

LRCampos.

 

[Lbart]

.
If 300 and 500 yards are eliminated from the NATIONALS, it means it will be irrelevant at any other levels (state and local) in a few years. It is what is happening at 800 and 900y, that was eliminated from the NATIONALS too.
There will be much less people willing to shoot 300 and 500 because it is no more a NATIONAL match.
Also, there are dozens of clubs, specially around the world, that does not have a way to make longer ranges and with 300 and/or 500 yards, get people shooting F-Class.
I prefer to have 300, 500 and 600y at Mid Range Nationals, as it is.
My 2 cents.
LRCampos.

Mr. Campos,
I don’t feel the elimination of 300 & 500 yards from the Mid-Range Nationals will affect FC shooting at those distances at other matches. Your reference to 800 & 900 being eliminated from the LR Nat’s affecting the shooting popularity at those distances is not true. Those 2 yard lines were only shot in the Nationals 1 time and that was in Sacramento, CA in 2006. All the rest of the Nat’s were shot at 600 & 1k up until 2012 when it was changed to all 1,000 yards.

300 & 500 yards will still be eligible for National Records in any other NRA Registered matches and I am sure clubs will still host whatever the shooters want. Personally I feel National Championships should be decided at the most challenging distance for that discipline. For MR that is 600 and for LR it is 1,000 yards. Wind reading is the deciding factor in winning most matches, as it should be, and the bullets are affected more at longer ranges.

 

[Warren Dean]

Well stated, Larry.

And 300 is a nightmare for the guy in the pits.