Chamber flush system build log.

[LVLAaron]

Gathered up some bits and pieces this week. I'm a prototype and fail quick, refine to fit spec later engineer... so don't judge any plumbing or equipment choices. Electrical is my thing... not plumbing.



Oil: 5 Gallons of Astro Swiss per @DaveTooley 's many recommendations. One of my concerns was finding an oil thin enough to do the job. I don't know what that is, but we'll find out together. At first glance it seems thin enough. Thinner than the 5-20 I put in my truck.


Rotary union: eBay Deublin purchase. Brand new and was one of the cheaper ones available. Unfortunately the output end is left hand npt, which is super hard to find parts/taps/connectors for. I think I will mill the threaded portion off, and tap the "nut" area 3/8 NPT. The bore is half inch so that should work out quite nice.

Return valve: Watts 0371271 530C 1/2" Poppet Style Adjustable Relief Valve. Adjustable 50-170 psi. Don't know if that's low enough on the low end, but we'll find out.

Pump: NorthStar NSQ Series 12V On-Demand Sprayer Diaphragm Pump - 2.2 GPM. Has a Santoprene diaphragm so it should be OK with oil. This type of pump automatically shuts off/slows down as needed. It's the type used in RV's for their water systems. Holding my breath for this to work... if not, I need a pump for a yard sprayer and will get a carbonator pump.

Filters: Pre-pump filter is a 50 micron stainless. Post-pump is a 5 micron polypropylene.

Not pictured is a box of fittings, valves, etc. Basic hardware store stuff. Nothing special.

I have not yet put much thought into adding check vales and an air line to clear the barrel. I'll get there.

 

[ridgeway]

These work great as a rotary union...



Keep an eye on that plastic hose. I had problems with it getting hard from oil. I went with reinforced rubber oil resistant hose. Much more pliable. Things tend to get messy with a hose failure. Don't ask me how I know, lol.

 

[LVLAaron]

These work great as a rotary union...

View attachment 1360271

Keep an eye on that plastic hose. I had problems with it getting hard from oil. I went with reinforced rubber oil resistant hose. Much more pliable. Things tend to get messy with a hose failure. Don't ask me how I know, lol.

The hose is definitely temporary while I figure out how I want this thing to ultimately be plumbed. I have a hydraulic shop in town that can make anything. Once it's working the way I want I'll get custom lines built or use iron/brass.

 

[Walt Krafft]

IMO you are over thinking it. I don't have any filters in my system or flow control valves. There is a solenoid that allows coolant to go to the hose attached to the rotary. The coolant pump comes on with the spindle. Go to Surpluscenter.com and look at their hydraulic fittings and hoses. They are as cheap as I have found.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Adapt that deublin down to 1/4npt and just tap the barrel

 

[LVLAaron]

Adapt that deublin down to 1/4npt and just tap the barrel

That's my plan, except 3/8's on the deublin because it'll fit the bore of it without building a shim or sleeve to make it smaller.

 

[LVLAaron]

IMO you are over thinking it. I don't have any filters in my system or flow control valves. There is a solenoid that allows coolant to go to the hose attached to the rotary. The coolant pump comes on with the spindle. Go to Surpluscenter.com and look at their hydraulic fittings and hoses. They are as cheap as I have found.

Ultimately I'd like to just have one diesel type filter pre-pump. I'll get it there. Being over cautious right now.

 

[WillyTP]

Take good notes….watching closely

 

[hoz53]

Ultimately I'd like to just have one diesel type filter pre-pump. I'll get it there. Being over cautious right now.

i used to work on oil burning furnaces. I m thinking a used gun burner from one should work great for this application as it has a motor that direct drives the fuel pump, all mounted on the burner frame. pump is designed for #2 fuel oil and has a pressure adjustment on it. seems like these ran at 100 psi. plenty for this. this is what i will try to start with anyhow.
these pumps are available individualy to. Ill be watching your thread on this for some good ideas. thanks

 

[DaveTooley]

Adapt that deublin down to 1/4npt and just tap the barrel

^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[DaveTooley]

i used to work on oil burning furnaces. I m thinking a used gun burner from one should work great for this application as it has a motor that direct drives the fuel pump, all mounted on the burner frame. pump is designed for #2 fuel oil and has a pressure adjustment on it. seems like these ran at 100 psi. plenty for this. this is what i will try to start with anyhow.
these pumps are available individualy to. Ill be watching your thread on this for some good ideas. thanks

What's the volume rating?

 

[DaveTooley]

I use a 1/4" NPT hydraulic hose about 16" long with my rotary union mounted on a stand. On the end of it I have a 1/4 to 1/8 reducing bushing. Then brass nipples as they get used up. That lets me reach up inside the spindle.

 

[xr650rRider]

Not to be a Debby Downer but who knows, you could get lucky.
Those plastic filter housings, while I see people using them, I sure wouldn't. I've had 2 of them split on potable water systems that only saw 60 psig max. The Big Blue filter housings even have a warning that they are supposed to be replaced every 5 years. Talk about make a mess quickly. SurplusCenter sales an actual hydraulic oil filter manifold with filter. Those filters are usually listed as return line filters, but I used the version rated for 200 psig in supply line. Typical hydraulic system would require a filter housing that might have to be 2500 psig rated to use in supply line and they are very expensive.
Filter on suction side, if it's more than a strainer, usually just ends up in a starved pump. If you use magnets (I've got a big one inside my oil supply, right under return), strainer, nothing large should make it to reservoir. The discharge filter should catch all the small stuff. I think my hydraulic filter is 10 micron.
I bought one of the same style pressure relief valves and it worked for 1 pop. It's not a flow control valve, it's made to open and relieve pressure. Usually a lot of hysteresis between opening and resetting closed, so it robs flow going to the barrel. I used a carbonator pump that was capable of 200 psig max, so it could have split the filter housing. It had an internal relief that I was able to make a new spring for and get it to relief around 60 psig. It reliefs straight back into the suction of the pump and is smooth and quite. Depending on flow and pressure, those relief valves can sound like a cat in heat when they are relieving.
That type of pump I have on RV. When you close faucet (high pressure), it stops. When the reamer pilot is in the lands and reamer body is cutting shoulder, the cutting oil will slow to a trickle, meaning pressure has risen, not a good time for pump to shut off. They usually have a pressure switch adjustment, for tuning out pulsing, but not sure you can bypass to make it ignore high pressure cut-off. Good thing, is they usually only pressure up to 40-50 psig, so your relief valve is not needed.

 

[hoz53]

What's the volume rating?

thats a good thought Dave.. I believe the single stage pumps are rated up to
4 gallons an hour at 100 psi. i think one gallon of fuel oil is around 140,000 btuh so many oil burners operate at 1 gph or less. How much is required.? Do you think one of these would work@? thanks

PS. i just looked at carbonator pumps and i see the volumes are alot more so thats the way to go i guess . i still wonder wat the minimum needed would be.

 

[hoz53]

Gathered up some bits and pieces this week. I'm a prototype and fail quick, refine to fit spec later engineer... so don't judge any plumbing or equipment choices. Electrical is my thing... not plumbing.



Oil: 5 Gallons of Astro Swiss per @DaveTooley 's many recommendations. One of my concerns was finding an oil thin enough to do the job. I don't know what that is, but we'll find out together. At first glance it seems thin enough. Thinner than the 5-20 I put in my truck.


Rotary union: eBay Deublin purchase. Brand new and was one of the cheaper ones available. Unfortunately the output end is left hand npt, which is super hard to find parts/taps/connectors for. I think I will mill the threaded portion off, and tap the "nut" area 3/8 NPT. The bore is half inch so that should work out quite nice.

Return valve: Watts 0371271 530C 1/2" Poppet Style Adjustable Relief Valve. Adjustable 50-170 psi. Don't know if that's low enough on the low end, but we'll find out.

Pump: NorthStar NSQ Series 12V On-Demand Sprayer Diaphragm Pump - 2.2 GPM. Has a Santoprene diaphragm so it should be OK with oil. This type of pump automatically shuts off/slows down as needed. It's the type used in RV's for their water systems. Holding my breath for this to work... if not, I need a pump for a yard sprayer and will get a carbonator pump.

Filters: Pre-pump filter is a 50 micron stainless. Post-pump is a 5 micron polypropylene.

Not pictured is a box of fittings, valves, etc. Basic hardware store stuff. Nothing special.

I have not yet put much thought into adding check vales and an air line to clear the barrel. I'll get there.


View attachment 1360252
View attachment 1360253View attachment 1360254

are you going to tap the barrels to fasten the rotary fitting to them? In a way Id like to make a clamp on system but i wouldnt want it coming loose in operation.

 

[LVLAaron]

I use a 1/4" NPT hydraulic hose about 16" long with my rotary union mounted on a stand. On the end of it I have a 1/4 to 1/8 reducing bushing. Then brass nipples as they get used up. That lets me reach up inside the spindle.

Are you threading the crown end with an NPT tap and threading in your hose?

 

[LVLAaron]

Not to be a Debby Downer but who knows, you could get lucky.
Those plastic filter housings, while I see people using them, I sure wouldn't. I've had 2 of them split on potable water systems that only saw 60 psig max. The Big Blue filter housings even have a warning that they are supposed to be replaced every 5 years. Talk about make a mess quickly. SurplusCenter sales an actual hydraulic oil filter manifold with filter. Those filters are usually listed as return line filters, but I used the version rated for 200 psig in supply line. Typical hydraulic system would require a filter housing that might have to be 2500 psig rated to use in supply line and they are very expensive.
Filter on suction side, if it's more than a strainer, usually just ends up in a starved pump. If you use magnets (I've got a big one inside my oil supply, right under return), strainer, nothing large should make it to reservoir. The discharge filter should catch all the small stuff. I think my hydraulic filter is 10 micron.
I bought one of the same style pressure relief valves and it worked for 1 pop. It's not a flow control valve, it's made to open and relieve pressure. Usually a lot of hysteresis between opening and resetting closed, so it robs flow going to the barrel. I used a carbonator pump that was capable of 200 psig max, so it could have split the filter housing. It had an internal relief that I was able to make a new spring for and get it to relief around 60 psig. It reliefs straight back into the suction of the pump and is smooth and quite. Depending on flow and pressure, those relief valves can sound like a cat in heat when they are relieving.
That type of pump I have on RV. When you close faucet (high pressure), it stops. When the reamer pilot is in the lands and reamer body is cutting shoulder, the cutting oil will slow to a trickle, meaning pressure has risen, not a good time for pump to shut off. They usually have a pressure switch adjustment, for tuning out pulsing, but not sure you can bypass to make it ignore high pressure cut-off. Good thing, is they usually only pressure up to 40-50 psig, so your relief valve is not needed.

Good info. I don't plan on keeping the filter housings forever. Just a prototype using stuff I could get quick and cheap. Ultimately I want to use a diesel fuel filter type filter on the suction side.

 

[LVLAaron]

So far so good. Chopped the left hand threads off the deublin.

Would you believe none of the local big box stores carry NPT taps?

 

[INTJ]

Here is the easy button on a rotary union:

Model BTS | gretanrifles

"BARREL THROUGH SPINDLE"This barrel adapter was designed for the gunsmith with smaller lathes in mind. If your chambering method is to mount the barrel through the spindle bore, and indicate the chamber end at the chuck, and the muzzle out the rear of the spindle with a spider.THIS is just what...

www.gretanrifles.com

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Most gun builders i know, except for the high volume guys like walt and tooley, used to use a flush system. They are a cool trinket til the first explosion. I probably still havent gotten all the oil cleaned up from the last time i used one 15yrs ago