CCI BR-4 Primers failure to fire

[Tony1320]

My experience with FTF was this way: I was shooting 6PPC with CCI BR-4 primers and occasionally I would have one not go off. I always blamed this on headspace and by being very careful not to bump the shoulder any more than 0.001 to 0.002 inch, it was not a major problem. Then I changed barrels to 6BRA and loaded up with CCI 450's to fire form Lapua 6mm BR Norma brass. Suddenly I had a non-functional rifle. Nothing I could do would make my setup fire the CCI 450's. I jammed bullets in cases neck sized with a 0.255 bushing, 30 thousandths into the lands - nothing. Crammed CCI 450 primers in so there was not a shadow of a doubt they were bottomed out - no luck. I pulled more 105 grain Bergers than I fired out of a box of 100!

Your situation seems all to familiar - I feel your pain brother. Alex Wheeler put a new FP spring in and the problem disappeared. All primers including CCI 450's fire with no problem now. As Alex put it, having to use only certain primers is lame, and I agree. One thing I should mention is that in testing other primers like Winchester SR and Federal GM205M's, I was blanking primers (at least you're not having that problem!) and Alex mentioned this is also a sign of a weak FP spring and in my case, a little excess H4895 for what I'm doing. Shooting a local fun match tomorrow and all should be well.

This will be my next step after 450s but i hope it doesnt come to that glad im not the only one with the same issue

 

[NorCalMikie]

With the FTF primer out of the case and smacked on a hard surface, you just eliminated the headspace and seating issues. What you'll finally see is either it goes BANG or it doesn't. Be sure to check it visually first.

 

[Tony1320]

With the FTF primer out of the case and smacked on a hard surface, you just eliminated the headspace and seating issues. What you'll finally see is either it goes BANG or it doesn't. Be sure to check it visually first.

2 of them didn't go off

 

[NorCalMikie]

2 of them didn't go off

Did you inspect the primers compound BEFORE you smacked them?? Did any one of them look different than the others?
My only FTF primer was from excess oil in the case when I was necking it down from 22. Failed to clean that case before it got the powder charge.

 

[Tony1320]

Did you inspect the primers compound BEFORE you smacked them?? Did any one of them look different than the others?
My only FTF primer was from excess oil in the case when I was necking it down from 22. Failed to clean that case before it got the powder charge.

Yes they all looked the same. There has been no oil anywhere near the primers.

There's several people on the f class facebook group reporting issues too

 

[Richard Coody]

well sorry for your problem. hope you get it resolved.

i like br4's. been using them a long time. shot 1000's of them. can't remember ever having one not go bang.

br4's have a thicker cup than br2's. same cup as the 450's. a light primer strike might fire a 2 and not a 4. that is why the 2's aren't recommended for AR's.

just a few things can cause problems. contamination, improper seating and weak primer strike from excessive headspace or weak firing pin spring.

new lapua brass often has tight primer pockets. takes some effort to get those primers seated properly. i don't like uniforming primer pockets. i like them tight. loose primer pockets are usually my reason for discarding brass. might help you though.

 

[Webster]

I just switched to Lapua Palma brass and CCI BR-4 primers and of the first box of 100 I used I had 10 fail to fire. Is anyone else having issues with BR-4 primers?

I pulled the bullets and tried them in another rifle and only 3 fired

Military research article on firing pin spring relaxation. It's been a while since I read the report but I think the relation is directly related to the number on cycles.

www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA302507

 

[Mechdraw]

differences i found in BR4 primers, in same box(1000)
notice the radius on right primer compared to left primer? left primers fire but right primers do not, in same rifle.

 

[Tony1320]

differences i found in BR4 primers, in same box(1000)
notice the radius on right primer compared to left primer? left primers fire but right primers do not, in same rifle.

Picture too small to tell but I picked up some 450s to try will know soon if its the primers.

 

[Tony1320]

I switched to CCI 450s and other than 3 cases that are .010 short no issues since.

 

[WyleWD]

The OP isn't alone in this concern about BR4 primers. We have a pair of Stolle Pandas in 6br that we're getting FTF at about 4 out of 10 will not go off. Federal, Winchester, and Rem 7 1/2 all work fine. Headspace is fine, previously fired brass, bullets into the lands by ten thousandths.WD

 

[Webster]

well sorry for your problem. hope you get it resolved.

i like br4's. been using them a long time. shot 1000's of them. can't remember ever having one not go bang.

br4's have a thicker cup than br2's. same cup as the 450's. a light primer strike might fire a 2 and not a 4. that is why the 2's aren't recommended for AR's.

just a few things can cause problems. contamination, improper seating and weak primer strike from excessive headspace or weak firing pin spring.

new lapua brass often has tight primer pockets. takes some effort to get those primers seated properly. i don't like uniforming primer pockets. i like them tight. loose primer pockets are usually my reason for discarding brass. might help you though.

Uniforming doesn't touch the pocket o.d. just the depth.

 

[Webster]

I measured the cases that failed to fire. The base to shoulder measures 1.600 to 1.602 and a fired case measures 1.610. OAL of the brass were all 2.008

I've always bumped shoulders back .002 when resizing but is .10 gap enough to cause a fail to fire?

If a fired case chambers easily you don't need to bump the shoulder.

 

[Steve Ladino]

If it was ME and I was having a problem with FTF on NEW brass, I wouldn't be blaming it on the CCI primers OR the firing pin or spring.
The first thing I would be looking at is the case length compared to the chamber length. Too short and the case gets pushed forward by the firing pin and you get FTF.
Lengthen the OAL on the FTF rounds by jamming the bullets into the lands so the case can't be pushed forward and make sure after the case is fire formed that you don't push the shoulder back too far and end up with the same problem again.
Or, replace the firing pin and spring, using the same ammo without making any changes to it and you'll still end up with the same problem. Do the easy stuff first.


I've gone thru maybe 5000 + CCI BR 4 primers and NEVER had a FTF because of a bad primer.
Push the FTF primers out and do the hammer thing. Smack it with a hammer and see if it goes BANG!! My bet is it will.

"Smack with a Hammer" Your eyes deserve a better test or simply accept the fact that CCI primers are a little hard but usually just fine, look elsewhere.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Just blame it on those "bum" CCI primers OR, figure out for sure if it's a defective primer or not. The "hammer" will tell you if the primer is bad or not or you need to be looking somewhere else.

 

[Zero333]

I had a FTF with some BR-2's a year or so ago.
I figured the firing pin spring was weak so I fixed it and didn't bother using the rest of the BR2's just to make sure I had no farther problems.
Shot almost 1k of a different lot of BR2's with out any problems. So I decided to load up the old br2's to see what happens.
Out of 50 I had 3 ftf's.
I'm almost certain it was the primers. Giving me the idea that the OP's problem could be the primers as well.

 

[Tony1320]

Other than the 3 cases I mentioned previously I haven't had an issue since switching to the CCI 450s. There are several people having issues with BR4s.

 

[chop house]

it would seem that beyond the ftf's, there would also be some in the suspect lots that do not give uniform ignition. has anyone noticed or read reports of es/sd higher than normal when using them?

 

[Buck 89]

I have had the same problem with them, 2 0r 3 out of 100 . Never with fed. 205m or rem. 7.5 match.

 

[mahalan]

I had the same problem. Found a discussion of it somewhere (I don't remember where). Apparently, there were a couple lots of primers where this was a known problem. I checked the lot number on my box. It matched one of the lots listed in the thread. For me, 2%-5% wouldn't fire.