CCI BR-4 Primers failure to fire

[Greyfox]

I measured the cases that failed to fire. The base to shoulder measures 1.600 to 1.602 and a fired case measures 1.610. OAL of the brass were all 2.008

I've always bumped shoulders back .002 when resizing but is .10 gap enough to cause a fail to fire?

Yes. I believe you have identified the problem. On the first firing you might use a tighter neck bushing in the attempt to keep the firing pin from pushing the bullet back into the case. A false shoulder will do it, but that's a lot of work.

Rick

 

[Tony1320]

Yes.

Maybe that's the issue then.. rather odd I've never had an issue with Standard Lapua brass.

What should I do with the brass that are too short if I can't fire them in my chamber?

 

[Greyfox]

Maybe that's the issue then.. rather odd I've never had an issue with Standard Lapua brass.

What should I do with the brass that are too short if I can't fire them in my chamber?

I would pull the bullets, resize the neck with a tighter bushing if possible, seat the bullet further out and try again. You can usually get them to fire by doing this. Of course, after the first firing the problem will go away. BTW-I have had to do this with Dasher brass a few times and also when I accidently pushed the shoulder back to far. I did that once on a quite a few 222 Rem Mag cases and chased my tail for quite a while until I figured it out. I also stretched the cases and lost some of the brass due to separation. Mistakes and problems are learning opportunities.

 

[Tony1320]

I would pull the bullets, resize the neck with a tighter bushing if possible, seat the bullet further out and try again. You can usually get them to fire by doing this. Of course, after the first firing the problem will go away. BTW-I have had to do this with Dasher brass a few times and also when I accidently pushed the shoulder back to far. I did that once on a quite a few 222 Rem Mag cases and chased my tail for quite a while until I figured it out. I also stretched the cases and lost some of the brass due to separation. Mistakes and problems are learning opportunities.

I'm using a Whidden non bushing die right now so I can't go with a tighter bushing but I will try seating them further out. I'm jumping them .015 right now, do you think loading them touching would good or should I go with .010 jam?

Good to know I'm not the only one having this issue

 

[NorCalMikie]

Moving the primer face that much away from the firing pin sure could cause a problem. That's why you ONLY bump shoulders maybe .002. Any more and the case gets pushed further into the chamber till the shoulder touches.
Or, lots of neck tension and the bullets jammed into the lands which will hold the case head against the bolt face.

 

[Jdne5b]

I'm using a Whidden non bushing die right now so I can't go with a tighter bushing but I will try seating them further out. I'm jumping them .015 right now, do you think loading them touching would good or should I go with .010 jam?

Good to know I'm not the only one having this issue

5 to 10 jam should be enough.

I would also not bump much until the 2nd firing just incase the case grows more.

 

[Greyfox]

I'm using a Whidden non bushing die right now so I can't go with a tighter bushing but I will try seating them further out. I'm jumping them .015 right now, do you think loading them touching would good or should I go with .010 jam?

Good to know I'm not the only one having this issue

If I were doing it I would barely seat the bullet and let the bolt do the rest. Since you are jumping the bullets that is adding to the problem.
Rick

 

[Tony1320]

Thank for you very much everyone for the help. I will try another batch and post what happens.

Out of curiosity is it common for the Lapua Palma brass to have that many cases out of spec? These were all from the same lot. I've seen some guys switch to Peterson or Alpha maybe this is why? I need to order another 500 cases for the spring if there is a better option I'm open to it.

 

['Freak]

With a bullet seater die seating all to the same case head to bullet ogive contact point length, but if on virgin cases the case head to shoulder datum length so happens to be .010” shorter than same on previously fire formed cases, then by time the firing pin is done shoving out that .010” shorter virgin case body length difference, the bullet’s ogive will also have been shoved forward so is now sitting .010” nearer to the lands.

 

[JoeZA]

Same issues on CCI small rifle primers. Thought it was a primer problem, then checked headspace and the ones that didn’t go off were 2 thou shorter.

Then loaded the short ones with Federals and S&B primers and they fired. So the root cause of the problem: definitely CCI primers.

 

[500Stroker]

I just switched to Lapua Palma brass and CCI BR-4 primers and of the first box of 100 I used I had 10 fail to fire. Is anyone else having issues with BR-4 primers?

I pulled the bullets and tried them in another rifle and only 3 fired

I have shot a lot of CCI BR-4's and I can not remember every having fail to fire.

 

[NorCalMikie]

"Then loaded the short ones with Federals and S&B primers and they fired. So the root cause of the problem: definitely CCI primers." ???


When replacing the primers, you were able to leave the bullets seated in the neck without making ANY adjustments in OAL?? Think about it.
My guess is when you replaced the primers and reloaded the bullet, you changed the OAL just enough that the case head stayed back against the bolt face and when hit by the firing pin, rather than the case being pushed forward in the chamber, the firing pin hit the primer and it went BANG!!
And after doing that a few times, the case was blown out and the shoulder moved forward so you didn't have THAT issue anymore.

 

[Webster]

I measured the cases that failed to fire. The base to shoulder measures 1.600 to 1.602 and a fired case measures 1.610. OAL of the brass were all 2.008

I've always bumped shoulders back .002 when resizing but is .10 gap enough to cause a fail to fire?

If a fired case chambers easily there is no reason to bump the shoulder. You already have clearance and you are increasing it by bumping. With my 6BRX I fired each new case 3 times without bumping and recorded the length with a shoulder gauge. When firing new brass I think it needs to be fired 2-3 times before it conforms to the chamber. Bumping each time prevents obtaining a proper case head to shoulder distance. Don't remember the numbers but it can take several firings for the shoulder to need bumping. I can take a fired case without sizing, primer, powder, bullet, chambers easily and they shoot nice groups and extract easily. Seating with too much force will damage the primer charge wafer.

 

[Greyfox]

If a fired case chambers easily there is no reason to bump the shoulder. You already have clearance and you are increasing it by bumping. With my 6BRX I fired each new case 3 times without bumping and recorded the length with a shoulder gauge. When firing new brass I think it needs to be fired 2-3 times before it conforms to the chamber. Bumping each time prevents obtaining a proper case head to shoulder distance. Don't remember the numbers but it can take several firings for the shoulder to need bumping. I can take a fired case without sizing, primer, powder, bullet, chambers easily and they shoot nice groups and extract easily. Seating with too much force will damage the primer charge wafer.

Agreed. When I introduce new brass into an old chamber I don't change the die setting. As long as it chambers easily, there is no reason to adjust the die downward to push the shoulder anymore.
I do measure the cases before the first fireforming and after. I just made 150 new cases for a 6 Beggs. They started out about .003 short at the shoulder. They have all fired so far with excellent accuracy and I won the match in which they were fired. When I reloaded them I still didn't reset the die. They chamber perfectly.

Rick

 

[Tony1320]

I just got back from shooting another batch. I pulled the rounds that previously failed to fire re primed them and seated them .010 jam. 2 of these rounds still didn't fire. I had about 35 rounds previously loaded .015 jump so I re seated those primers with a Lee bench priming tool to make sure they were seated properly. 6 of these rounds didn't fire.

 

[Tony1320]

Here's a picture of fired primers on the top and failed to fire on the bottom.

 

[hogpatrol]

Tens of thousands of primers an I can count on one hand how many FTFs. 99.9999999% of the time it's a firearm or a brass/reloading problem.

 

[Ringostar]

Tony, I can help you out. Send all those damn CCI primers to me. I'll dispose of them properly! Seriously now, try some of them in your fire formed cases.

 

[M-61]

I measured the cases that failed to fire. The base to shoulder measures 1.600 to 1.602 and a fired case measures 1.610. OAL of the brass were all 2.008

I've always bumped shoulders back .002 when resizing but is .10 gap enough to cause a fail to fire?

Only target shoot. Bumping shoulders is NOT one of my regular steps in reloading. It would be to fix a problem. If the case chambers and the bolt closes 'normally', no need. To me it's like chamfering case necks. I chamfer after a case needs to be trimmed. I trim only if the case has grown. Then I need that chamfer back again. I clean primer pockets but remove NO brass. I seat the primers until they BOTTOM. No clue nor interest in how far below flush they are. I debur NEW brass one time and that's it. No burrs grow back. I never alter the flash hole. And when installing a barrel I set the head space. I do NOT move the shoulder back an additional amount for some unknown reason if it chambers. Pretty near everything I shoot is easy on the brass. The whole BR line (22,6.6.5,30) So maybe I am in a different category. But then again I shoot 100 yards. And (not to start a fight) I'll mention that I am a ½ neck sizer. I believe that working the brass as LITTLE as possible is a plus.
The above is not a suggestion that MY methods are good or sound. It is what I do for MY shooting in My rifles. I no longer compete except against myself and if I do my part I walk away (most times) with a smile at the group size.

 

[NorCalMikie]

If I pulled the bullets and my friend tried firing them in other rifles and 3 fired and the rest still didn't go off do you still think its a brass problem?

YES, till proven otherwise!! Still think the rounds are too short. Been there, done that!! Make the OAL longer by pulling the bullets out a bit to keep the case head against the bolt face. Probably too late now to know for sure.