Cast Bullet Accuracy

[XTR]

Check Single Shot Schutzen shooters.. All 200 yds 1.5" center bull scoreing rings 3/4 inch wide per point. Cast bullet no gas check. These guys shoot perfect scores at 200 benchrest. Scoreing is center of bullet from the bench and best edge offhand. Most do homemade lube. Falling block actions. LT

They shoot them at about 1200 feet per second too. Good long range BPCR shooters can consistently hit the 10 ring at 1000 yards with a 535gr 45 caliber bullet launched over black powder, (and 175MOA of elevation from a 100 yard zero) but the MVs are in the 1250 to 1300 range for grease grooves and maybe 1450 for paper patched. The OP was asking about 2600FPS, that's a whole 'nuther animal.

 

[stool]

imho..the weak link in rifle cast bullet shooting is the gas check
look at the edge....round......
look at the base of an unchecked bullet...sharp square corner.
the last then the bullet sees is the crown...
i would love to see a precise tool for installing a square edge crimp on gas check..........
using a lubersizer is "ok" but not PRECISE.
in my 44 mag super red hawk...all rounds shoot better WITHOUT the gas check in place!
300gr hp and 300 gr lfn....both shoot very well both ways..but the bullet without the gas check is better by 1/8-3/16" at 50 yds.
i do use a gas check in my carbine but i also use a nag primer in the carbine,,,think 20" combustion chamber!

 

[JGibson]

The GC has other functions like protecting the base and preventing gas blow by cutting of the metal. Cast bullets always shoot best for me if NOT sized. I have a Lyman lube sizer and numerous LEE sizing dies. I use FCD to crimp check on. It is what it is, I agree with you. Getting the projectile out of the machine in as good of shape as possible is the key, for me, thus far.

 

[XTR]

someone else hit on one of the problems of shooting cast bullets, it is often done in cases that are much larger than the needed capacity for the given projectiles. My experience with a 45-70 is that it's easier to get them to shoot black powder than smokeless.

For your purposes you may well be better off trying to find a 30-30 barrel that isn't micro grooved. I know your probably trying to shoot what you have, and maybe if you shoot a 220 grain bullet you can get everything working.

My personal choice if I ever build a 30 cal to shoot cast will be a 30-40 Krag (30 US) in some kind of falling block configuration.

 

[cardman5448]

I read with some interest your questions and all the responses on cast bullet accuracy. I believe I have done the biggest share of experimenting with .30 caliber cast bullets that makes much sense. Just to add some creditbility to my response here, I have won 3 CBA national championships and currently hold 18 national records. As far as gas checks being square to the base the Star lubrizer has no equal in my humble opinion. The bullets go thru the die nose first. Crimping, squaring, lubing and sizing(if so desired) is done with one stroke. The gas check is very square with the base. I believe the LBT bullet web site has more on this......I have shot cast bullets up to 2700 fps without leading. Accuracy suffered at this type of velocity. I moly coated my bullets and used blue angel or star lube. I found that bullets under 180 grains and twists slower than 13 were almost useless in my pursuits. I have tried 17 twist at the slowest with 145 grn. bullets with some accuracy but quite often extreme fliers. I did not use a 30-06 but a .30 BR or .308 for my experimenting with high velocity. I wanted to reduce the powder capacity in my .308 case so I used the thick L.C. military 06 brass and formed .308 cases. This not only reduced powder capacity which reduced the empty space in my case but also allowed me to turn my necks true and maintain a neck clearance much closer to benchrest standards. Using N-135 and A-2520 with a Shilen barreled .308 with 12 twist and 189 grain Eagan bullet I shot frequent groups under an inch at 200 yards in the evening with no wind or mirage with my railgun. Velocity was around 2400 as I recall. I might include that without moly coating my gas checks and bullets, leading occurred.........My reply probably won't help you much but I have proved to myself that accuracy with cast bullets at jacketed velocity is possible with a lot of work and a whole lot more patience........Mel

 

[JGibson]

Mel:

I agree, completely.

I just came in the house from shooting. I shot 3 groups. The best was 3.91" at 200 yards. Nowhere near your league! I am a poor shot. The AV from a 3 shot test yesterday of this loading was 2691 fps. with an average bullet weight of 161 grains.

That 5 shot group is very good for me. I have GREAT difficulty with second or fourth shot flyers.

I have tried various and sundry lubes. I have my own simple lube formula, now. I hand lube only and seat the checks as I stated; that part is settled dogma for me. Sizing deforms the bullet, for me. That is never good, for me.

I am nowhere near as proficient as you are. I shall keep working hard. I shoot ever single day and am trying very hard to improve my hold. I shoot off of a plastic table and a sand bag that leaks (just an old ragged bag that they give you in case of flood.) My table is also semi buckled. LOL! I will buy better as finances allow. I mostly just push the trigger guard into the bag and hold down on the foreend with two fingers to anchor.

I have shot MANY calibers and have had good luck, for me with most all. The .300 WM was the most difficult and I gave in at shooting 3 shot groups at 3K. I could NEVER get a decent 5 shot group. I did find that the notion of metals being brittle is WAY overblown. (Of course hard alloys with higher Sb content are brittle to degrees) But, I found this from shooting two pieces of steel separated by a short distance to observe how the bullet impacted the second piece.

From my site (not sure links are allowed?):

http://www.wedealinlead.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5505

ETA: Just to be clear, your loadings are something I might aspire to but I highly doubt I could ever get near there. My rifles are all bone stock and my abilities are meager as well.

 

[dan06]

I just started a small business making cast bullets for pistol shooters up here in maine. I have been offering bullets coated with Hi-Tek bullet coating and my uspsa pistol shooters love them. It is a baked on epoxy type coating with a dry lube mixed in. The bullets are coated as cast (I coat 3 times) then they are sized......this leaves the greese grooves empty....

The other day when casting a few K- 148- 38 DEWC I was thinking that if some one coated a rifle bullet with 2 coats of Hi-Tek coating then sized and lubed?????would it help leading???? and accuracy. It would be a long time before I could get a chance to test this idea but if a couple of you wanted to send me 100 naked cast bullets I would coat them for you and return them. You could then size them and lube them and give them a try????

Pm Me if interested.