I've noticed some odd variations with my case resizing. Some cases will chamber just fine and some are stiff when the bolt is turned down. So I played with the sizing die a little and after bumping the case shoulder back a little more the problem went away. My real question is would the trouble I just explained cause unexplained fliers at the range? My rifle will run 1/2 MOA all day everyday with federal GMM so the fliers have to be my reloading technique. Thanks for the help!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Case Variations
- Thread starter JaxCatm
- Start date
Jax, you did not mention if the cases are all the same lot, number of firings, trimed, been loaded with the same load, primer, powder, bullet, etc.
if all the same, this is a strange happening, if a mixture, then it is easy to experience, the solution you used it to get them all to the same with further fl sizing, now if the loads etc are the same and the brass the same lot, you shouldnot have a prroblem
Bob
if all the same, this is a strange happening, if a mixture, then it is easy to experience, the solution you used it to get them all to the same with further fl sizing, now if the loads etc are the same and the brass the same lot, you shouldnot have a prroblem
Bob
"So I played with the sizing die a little and after bumping the case shoulder back a little more the problem went away. My real question is would the ......."
I do not start reloading/sizing without the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I do not make wild guesstimates of an adjustment. When sizing a case for a chamber I determine the length of the chamber first, that eliminates all the 'bump' the shoulder routine. I put the shoulder where I want it with case body support, meaning when the shoulder is pushed back the case body wants to expand, with case body support that is not possible, even if the body did expand and the reloader was using a 'shoulder bump die' the reloader would have no way to determine if the case body did in fact expand.
Measuring the length of the chamber, #1 is the length from the bolt face to the shoulder. You did not mention press, die or chamber models/brands or designations, so I will choose 30/06, RCBS Rock Chucker press and Group A RCBS dies, first the Rock Chucker does not 'BUMP' it locks up- jams or goes into a bind but it does not bump. When the die is adjusted down to the shell holder with the proverbial 1/4 turn the press is adjusted for full length sizing of the case, a case that is full length sized is the same as minimum length over the counter, new unfired, the length of a full length sized case from the head of the case to it's shoulder is .000 meaning the length of the full length sized case from the head of the case to it's shoulder is .005 shorter than the length of the chamber (in the perfect world) from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber ( the go-gage is .005 longer than a minimum length/full length case).
Proverbial 1/4 turn, in the perfect world we are talking about new and or once fired cases, when the die is turned down 1/4 turn the press whips the case, when the case being sized is fired to form??? then necked sized 5 times and then full length sized to start over???? the case can whip the press and resist being sized, at this point an addition turn of the die will require 1/2 or 3/4 turn down after contact, at this point the reloader should realize the press is being put in to a 9 line bind and the case can still whip the press. When the resistance to sizing is suspected the reloader can use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage to determine if the die is contacting the shell holder (as it would if new cases were being sized), the reloader could use the feeler gage to measure the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die before lowering the ram. After lowering the ram the reloader must remember a case has recovery, memory and or spring back.
So, without knowing the length of the chamber, without being able to adjust the die to the shell holder and without knowing the amount of resistance to sizing a case has, there is no way to answer your question.
Determining the length of the chamber before going to the range, anything else is a bad habit as in firing to form, heard on the Internet every day, "I fire formed my cases today to my chamber" and then the refrain, "now I am going to neck size" the reloader could have saved a trip to the range had the had the skill, technique and or knowledge to measure the length of the chamber, I form first, then fire, after firing my cases become once fired cases. and because I use datums when determining the length of the chamber, determine the effect the chamber had on the case when fired is just a matter of using the same datum to compare the effect by measuring the (formed) case before and after firing.
When determining chamber length as with 30/06 I use 280 Remington cases, can not miss, the shoulder of the 280 is forward of the 30/06 shoulder .051 thousands, with the companion tool to the press the feeler gage it is a can not miss, I use the feeler gage to control the amount of sizing.
If I wanted to use a 'bump' press I would choose one of my Herters, all my Herters bump, in fact they bump twice, and that is where the term 'bump' came from. By design the maximum ability of a press, die and shell holder to size a case is built into the design, again an additional 1/4 turn is full length sizing, when chambering a rifle I make gages that are .012 thousands shorter than minimum length/full length sized, I use the feeler gage to raise the deck height of the shell holder, I could mindlessly grind the top of the shell holder, I could mindlessly grind the bottom of the die but that would not get me 12 different length cases, I could use the Redding +.010 set of 5, instead I use the feeler gage, I get 10 options instead of 5, and the Redding competition shell holder cost $40.00+.
The difference between a full length sized and neck sized case is time.
F. Guffey
I do not start reloading/sizing without the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I do not make wild guesstimates of an adjustment. When sizing a case for a chamber I determine the length of the chamber first, that eliminates all the 'bump' the shoulder routine. I put the shoulder where I want it with case body support, meaning when the shoulder is pushed back the case body wants to expand, with case body support that is not possible, even if the body did expand and the reloader was using a 'shoulder bump die' the reloader would have no way to determine if the case body did in fact expand.
Measuring the length of the chamber, #1 is the length from the bolt face to the shoulder. You did not mention press, die or chamber models/brands or designations, so I will choose 30/06, RCBS Rock Chucker press and Group A RCBS dies, first the Rock Chucker does not 'BUMP' it locks up- jams or goes into a bind but it does not bump. When the die is adjusted down to the shell holder with the proverbial 1/4 turn the press is adjusted for full length sizing of the case, a case that is full length sized is the same as minimum length over the counter, new unfired, the length of a full length sized case from the head of the case to it's shoulder is .000 meaning the length of the full length sized case from the head of the case to it's shoulder is .005 shorter than the length of the chamber (in the perfect world) from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber ( the go-gage is .005 longer than a minimum length/full length case).
Proverbial 1/4 turn, in the perfect world we are talking about new and or once fired cases, when the die is turned down 1/4 turn the press whips the case, when the case being sized is fired to form??? then necked sized 5 times and then full length sized to start over???? the case can whip the press and resist being sized, at this point an addition turn of the die will require 1/2 or 3/4 turn down after contact, at this point the reloader should realize the press is being put in to a 9 line bind and the case can still whip the press. When the resistance to sizing is suspected the reloader can use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage to determine if the die is contacting the shell holder (as it would if new cases were being sized), the reloader could use the feeler gage to measure the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die before lowering the ram. After lowering the ram the reloader must remember a case has recovery, memory and or spring back.
So, without knowing the length of the chamber, without being able to adjust the die to the shell holder and without knowing the amount of resistance to sizing a case has, there is no way to answer your question.
Determining the length of the chamber before going to the range, anything else is a bad habit as in firing to form, heard on the Internet every day, "I fire formed my cases today to my chamber" and then the refrain, "now I am going to neck size" the reloader could have saved a trip to the range had the had the skill, technique and or knowledge to measure the length of the chamber, I form first, then fire, after firing my cases become once fired cases. and because I use datums when determining the length of the chamber, determine the effect the chamber had on the case when fired is just a matter of using the same datum to compare the effect by measuring the (formed) case before and after firing.
When determining chamber length as with 30/06 I use 280 Remington cases, can not miss, the shoulder of the 280 is forward of the 30/06 shoulder .051 thousands, with the companion tool to the press the feeler gage it is a can not miss, I use the feeler gage to control the amount of sizing.
If I wanted to use a 'bump' press I would choose one of my Herters, all my Herters bump, in fact they bump twice, and that is where the term 'bump' came from. By design the maximum ability of a press, die and shell holder to size a case is built into the design, again an additional 1/4 turn is full length sizing, when chambering a rifle I make gages that are .012 thousands shorter than minimum length/full length sized, I use the feeler gage to raise the deck height of the shell holder, I could mindlessly grind the top of the shell holder, I could mindlessly grind the bottom of the die but that would not get me 12 different length cases, I could use the Redding +.010 set of 5, instead I use the feeler gage, I get 10 options instead of 5, and the Redding competition shell holder cost $40.00+.
The difference between a full length sized and neck sized case is time.
F. Guffey
Press is a Rock Chucker Supreme dies are Forster FL honed to .335 at the neck. My chamber I have not the slightest clue as I don't have a map of the reamer. What I do know is this when measuring with Hornady tools my fired brass is 1.626 to the datum line. It will not chamber without the bolt being stiff at this measurement. I tried 1.625 and the bolt was still stiff. At 1.624 turning the bolt down smoothed out and I feel very slight tension during the last 25% of pushing the bolt handle down. What concerns me more than anything is the measurement I get on fired brass. The manufacturer lists the headspace as being cut to 1.631 so is my brass showing .005 worth of spring back or did the chamber get cut a little short. The second part of my troubles would be neck tension. The chamber neck was cut to .3450 and fired brass shows .001 of sping back after firing. When loading 175 SMK bullets my outside neck diameter of a loaded round is .337 and I have experienced no trouble sizing the case neck down to .335. With Berger VLDs my outside neck diameter of a loaded round is .333 so I'm thinking in order to shoot that bullet I may have to reduce neck size in two steps. BTW my rifle is a FN SPR A3G.
Jaxcatm
If your pushing the shoulder back 0.002 and your cases don't just drop in the problem is at the base near the web.
Most re-sizing dies over re-size the shoulder area and don't touch the web area enough.
You are actually pushing the shoulder back farther than it needs to be pushed back in order to squeeze down the base to the correct size.
In your example see if you can get a die with a small base.
Lynn
If your pushing the shoulder back 0.002 and your cases don't just drop in the problem is at the base near the web.
Most re-sizing dies over re-size the shoulder area and don't touch the web area enough.
You are actually pushing the shoulder back farther than it needs to be pushed back in order to squeeze down the base to the correct size.
In your example see if you can get a die with a small base.
Lynn
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58127-55.html
You have a 308 W, 'sorta'. Again, I determine the length of the chamber first then size cases to chamber/fit. Again, Sinclair/Hornady tools are nice,'sorta' but when sizing cases for short chambers the Sinclair/Hornady only work on fired cases, again, I am not a fan of firing to form to determine the effect the chamber is going to have on a case when fired, I want to know the effect the chamber is going to have on the case when fired, AND, that is the reason I determine the length of the chamber first.
You started with Federal GMM, you have the Sinclair/Hornady tool, if I was involved I would measure the Federal GMM ammo before firing, if the Federal GMM ammo chambers and is accurate I would use the GMM as a standard and transfer the dimensions to the press, I do not use head space gages, but if I did, I would remove the decapping pin/neck expander ball from the die, insert the go-gage into the shell holder then raise the ram, with the die backed off, once the ram was raised I would adjust the die down to go gage (carefully: because they are so pathetically weak, soft and subject to damage). When the gage contact the die the die is adjusted to the shell holder to size cases that are .005? longer from the case head to the shoulder than a full length sized/minimum length sized, new, over the counter case. Foreign to reloaders is the feeler/transfer gage, to check the die for accuracy measure the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die with the ram up (and it is not necessary to remove the go-gage, reason; the press will go into a bind, lock up, jam or cram over before it crushes the go-gage, again the gage is pathetically weak, soft and subject to damage.
I have 62 chamber reamers, when I chamber a rifle, I always short chamber it for road testing, meaning I also have to form cases for the short chamber, determine the difference between the length of the chamber and length of the case for me is too simple, all that is required is the chamber and the case that will not chamber, everyone else uses 'the datum'.
F. Guffey
You have a 308 W, 'sorta'. Again, I determine the length of the chamber first then size cases to chamber/fit. Again, Sinclair/Hornady tools are nice,'sorta' but when sizing cases for short chambers the Sinclair/Hornady only work on fired cases, again, I am not a fan of firing to form to determine the effect the chamber is going to have on a case when fired, I want to know the effect the chamber is going to have on the case when fired, AND, that is the reason I determine the length of the chamber first.
You started with Federal GMM, you have the Sinclair/Hornady tool, if I was involved I would measure the Federal GMM ammo before firing, if the Federal GMM ammo chambers and is accurate I would use the GMM as a standard and transfer the dimensions to the press, I do not use head space gages, but if I did, I would remove the decapping pin/neck expander ball from the die, insert the go-gage into the shell holder then raise the ram, with the die backed off, once the ram was raised I would adjust the die down to go gage (carefully: because they are so pathetically weak, soft and subject to damage). When the gage contact the die the die is adjusted to the shell holder to size cases that are .005? longer from the case head to the shoulder than a full length sized/minimum length sized, new, over the counter case. Foreign to reloaders is the feeler/transfer gage, to check the die for accuracy measure the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die with the ram up (and it is not necessary to remove the go-gage, reason; the press will go into a bind, lock up, jam or cram over before it crushes the go-gage, again the gage is pathetically weak, soft and subject to damage.
I have 62 chamber reamers, when I chamber a rifle, I always short chamber it for road testing, meaning I also have to form cases for the short chamber, determine the difference between the length of the chamber and length of the case for me is too simple, all that is required is the chamber and the case that will not chamber, everyone else uses 'the datum'.
F. Guffey
Jaxcatm
In looking over the rest of your post you said the loaded rounds using Sierra bullets was 0.337 and then went on to say the Bergers were 0.004 smaller.
I think something is off in the numbers as 0.004 is way too much variation between bullet brands with the same brass.
Is it possible you seated the Bergers without re-adjusting the seater stem? I ask because the vld type bullets are longer and you may be pushing them in the case way too much.
Lynn
In looking over the rest of your post you said the loaded rounds using Sierra bullets was 0.337 and then went on to say the Bergers were 0.004 smaller.
I think something is off in the numbers as 0.004 is way too much variation between bullet brands with the same brass.
Is it possible you seated the Bergers without re-adjusting the seater stem? I ask because the vld type bullets are longer and you may be pushing them in the case way too much.
Lynn
The bottom .125 + a few thousands is not sized, the deck height of the shell holder is .125, the bottom of the die opening has a radius, again, he has Federal GMM new, unfired ammo, before small base dies are purchased the OP needs to learn to measure the diameter of the case and be able to compare case diameter as new never fired and fired, then there is the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, before I purchases another die I do not need or another die that does not work I would start sizing cases with the feeler gage, and we know the Forster die when owned puts the owner in the 'in crowd' it is too limiting in versatility for me, none of this stuff hangs me up, but I do not have all the new fad dies.
Again I am a big fan of datums, I make, collect and use them, and for the most part they are free.
F. Guffey
Again I am a big fan of datums, I make, collect and use them, and for the most part they are free.
F. Guffey
fguffey
The original poster said he was setting his shoulder back 0.005 in order to get the cases to chamber smoothly.That is caused by too much base diameter in front of the web.His cases won't chamber smoothly with 0.002 worth of shoulder set-back if you re-read his post.
There is nothing that is going to be fixed by using a feeler gage.He needs more sizing near the base not the shoulder and a feeler gage does nothing to help that.
Your method of using a feeler gage is helpful if your swapping your die and the very same shellholder into different presses as it would allow for quicker set-up.
Most shooters even on this forum don't size there brass properly.Brass is very forgiving and for the average shooter using factory chambers and dies getting 5 reloadings is good enough.That does not however mean that there brass fits there chamber correctly.
If your pushing the shoulder back more than 0.002 it is excessive and not necessary.
As to the bottom 0.125 none of that matters as it sits in the boltface and not in the chamber.
Lynn
The original poster said he was setting his shoulder back 0.005 in order to get the cases to chamber smoothly.That is caused by too much base diameter in front of the web.His cases won't chamber smoothly with 0.002 worth of shoulder set-back if you re-read his post.
There is nothing that is going to be fixed by using a feeler gage.He needs more sizing near the base not the shoulder and a feeler gage does nothing to help that.
Your method of using a feeler gage is helpful if your swapping your die and the very same shellholder into different presses as it would allow for quicker set-up.
Most shooters even on this forum don't size there brass properly.Brass is very forgiving and for the average shooter using factory chambers and dies getting 5 reloadings is good enough.That does not however mean that there brass fits there chamber correctly.
If your pushing the shoulder back more than 0.002 it is excessive and not necessary.
As to the bottom 0.125 none of that matters as it sits in the boltface and not in the chamber.
Lynn
Jaxcatm
Most of the accuracy shooters shooters on this forum will remove there firing pin assembly and extractor from there bolt.They will then set the shoulder back on there cases so the bolt drops down with just a little bit of drag on it.
If you think about it the boltface will hold one end of the case and because the shoulder area is funnel shaped a little bit of drag means its just touching the shoulder area of the chamber.This self aligns the case assuring us it is centered up.
The more one bumps the shoulder back the more slop that is created and the case is no longer centered up but laying in the bottom of the chamber or pinned against the chambers wall by the exctractor/plunger once they are re-installed.
In your example the base right in front of the web is thicker than is necessary.The cases head is sitting into the bolts face but instead of the shoulder aiding in the aligning of the brass the area right in front of the web is causing the snug fit and the shoulder is floating in free space.
Right now you can test wether or not I am full of hot air by simply turning the area down in front of the web.If you don't have a lathe and the correct collet you can use 80 grit sandpaper and a drill.You need to remove plenty of brass in order to test this out.
Lynn
Most of the accuracy shooters shooters on this forum will remove there firing pin assembly and extractor from there bolt.They will then set the shoulder back on there cases so the bolt drops down with just a little bit of drag on it.
If you think about it the boltface will hold one end of the case and because the shoulder area is funnel shaped a little bit of drag means its just touching the shoulder area of the chamber.This self aligns the case assuring us it is centered up.
The more one bumps the shoulder back the more slop that is created and the case is no longer centered up but laying in the bottom of the chamber or pinned against the chambers wall by the exctractor/plunger once they are re-installed.
In your example the base right in front of the web is thicker than is necessary.The cases head is sitting into the bolts face but instead of the shoulder aiding in the aligning of the brass the area right in front of the web is causing the snug fit and the shoulder is floating in free space.
Right now you can test wether or not I am full of hot air by simply turning the area down in front of the web.If you don't have a lathe and the correct collet you can use 80 grit sandpaper and a drill.You need to remove plenty of brass in order to test this out.
Lynn
Lynn,
I don't need to sand a case to take your advice. I ran up to my office and grabbed a 1.630 go gauge and dropped it in the chamber. As predicted the bolt locked down without any tension at all. After measuring the web area on Federal GMM at .465 and the go gauge web area at .460 I'm starting to believe you have a point. Now here is the odd part when I size my brass the web seems to expand .003 to .004 confirming what you said about the brass flowing in that direction during sizing. Will a small base die fix the problem or do I need to find another solution?
I don't need to sand a case to take your advice. I ran up to my office and grabbed a 1.630 go gauge and dropped it in the chamber. As predicted the bolt locked down without any tension at all. After measuring the web area on Federal GMM at .465 and the go gauge web area at .460 I'm starting to believe you have a point. Now here is the odd part when I size my brass the web seems to expand .003 to .004 confirming what you said about the brass flowing in that direction during sizing. Will a small base die fix the problem or do I need to find another solution?
Yes a small base 308 die will help with web sizing BUT I strongly urge you to try some other brand - pretty much any other - of 308 brass & see what happens.
Federal is notorious for being a bit too soft & as such may be the root source of your problem.
Too, if you find your case webs growing in diameter from the minimal forces involved in resizing (compared to those being endured during firing) you're not using enough of a proper case sizing lube to reduce friction.
Variations in shoulder set back with a given die setting an also result from inconsistent work hardening of the shoulder & neck brass, which is why many of us choose to anneal cases. This also tends to make neck tension more uniform and contributes to longer case life overall.
Federal is notorious for being a bit too soft & as such may be the root source of your problem.
Too, if you find your case webs growing in diameter from the minimal forces involved in resizing (compared to those being endured during firing) you're not using enough of a proper case sizing lube to reduce friction.
Variations in shoulder set back with a given die setting an also result from inconsistent work hardening of the shoulder & neck brass, which is why many of us choose to anneal cases. This also tends to make neck tension more uniform and contributes to longer case life overall.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58127-55.html
I measure before and after,
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd308winchester.jpg
I furnished a link to your rifle "BTW my rifle is a FN SPR A3G" $2,600.00+ with + or - .001 head space. You claimed you had to screw the die in an additional .005 to get the case to chamber, now I ask after posting a link to the rifle you claim you have, did you read the instructions, you rifle could have -.001 head space, your rifle could have .000 head space, your rifle could have +.001 thousands head space, why are you backing the die off .005 thousands, your rifle cost $2,600 +? When you pay that kind of money did you expect a standard SAMMY chamber, again I measure the chamber first, then form cases. You have decided to fire first to form, most of the problems sizing is caused by bad habits and or bad advise.
I form cases for short chambers, from go-gage length to a - .017 thousands shorter than a go gage length chamber, or .012 thousands shorter than a full length size/minimum length case in thousands.
There are not many dies I do not have, that does not mean I need them, I use the versatile die (full length sizer die), I f I had your rifle 'FN SPR A3G' with the short chamber I would be finished, you can purchase a small base die, after that you can purchase a bushing die and it goes on and on and on. The advise I gave you should have allowed you to determine the direction you need to go, I had no warning you would disregard the link I furnished, nor did I think Lynn would do the same, per specifications you have no business backing the die off .005 when you start sizing, that is like sizing by default, or sizing without a clue.
Again, measure length and diameter of the Federal GMM cases before firing, then again after firing.
Federal GMM is good ammo, before you waste your money taking Lynn's advise consider the Federal GMM ammo could have an adverse effect on the case when fired, if you do not measure before and after you will never know, in the perfect world case head expansion could be determined by being able to measure the diameter of the case, some use a bladed micrometer, again I tried to save you the expense.
A suggestion, purchase Federal Gold Medal ammo or R-P, or Winchester 'NEW'! or learn some techniques and methods or as Lynn recommends, purchase another die.
Lynn,"Your method of using a feeler gage is helpful if your swapping your die and the very same shellholder into different presses as it would allow for quicker set-up" Let me know if that is what you meant to say, before you answer the question read the link furnished for the FN SPR A3G"
F. Guffey
I measure before and after,
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd308winchester.jpg
I furnished a link to your rifle "BTW my rifle is a FN SPR A3G" $2,600.00+ with + or - .001 head space. You claimed you had to screw the die in an additional .005 to get the case to chamber, now I ask after posting a link to the rifle you claim you have, did you read the instructions, you rifle could have -.001 head space, your rifle could have .000 head space, your rifle could have +.001 thousands head space, why are you backing the die off .005 thousands, your rifle cost $2,600 +? When you pay that kind of money did you expect a standard SAMMY chamber, again I measure the chamber first, then form cases. You have decided to fire first to form, most of the problems sizing is caused by bad habits and or bad advise.
I form cases for short chambers, from go-gage length to a - .017 thousands shorter than a go gage length chamber, or .012 thousands shorter than a full length size/minimum length case in thousands.
There are not many dies I do not have, that does not mean I need them, I use the versatile die (full length sizer die), I f I had your rifle 'FN SPR A3G' with the short chamber I would be finished, you can purchase a small base die, after that you can purchase a bushing die and it goes on and on and on. The advise I gave you should have allowed you to determine the direction you need to go, I had no warning you would disregard the link I furnished, nor did I think Lynn would do the same, per specifications you have no business backing the die off .005 when you start sizing, that is like sizing by default, or sizing without a clue.
Again, measure length and diameter of the Federal GMM cases before firing, then again after firing.
Federal GMM is good ammo, before you waste your money taking Lynn's advise consider the Federal GMM ammo could have an adverse effect on the case when fired, if you do not measure before and after you will never know, in the perfect world case head expansion could be determined by being able to measure the diameter of the case, some use a bladed micrometer, again I tried to save you the expense.
A suggestion, purchase Federal Gold Medal ammo or R-P, or Winchester 'NEW'! or learn some techniques and methods or as Lynn recommends, purchase another die.
Lynn,"Your method of using a feeler gage is helpful if your swapping your die and the very same shellholder into different presses as it would allow for quicker set-up" Let me know if that is what you meant to say, before you answer the question read the link furnished for the FN SPR A3G"
F. Guffey
The deck height is .125 on all my shell holders with one exception, I purchased a set of Redding Competition shell holders #6 for $5.00, I would pay $5.00 I would not pay $10.00, there is nothing the Redding shell 5 option holders can do that I can not do with a feeler gage with 10 options.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
Well I found the problem tonight. I measured and measured and adjusted the die and pulled the bolt apart to make sure there was no tension to be found. The numbers still were not adding up so I got out a go gauge and figured if it was tight or didn't chamber then I had a short chamber or case expansion in front of the case head. After placing the go gauge in the chamber and closing the bolt with ease I had a pretty dumb look on my face. Since the go gauge is cut to 1.630 I thought maybe my caliper is off. Wouldn't you know it was reading 1.625 on my calipers. So with that knowledge in mind and the knowledge that FN said my chamber was cut at 1.631 I sized a case to 1.625 which would put it .001 under the headspace. I'll be damned but it dropped in and displayed only a little tension during the last 25% of bolt turn. So word to the wise gentlemen #1 don't buy the bargin measurement tools it could cost you a rifle and some embarrassment. To the guys that assisted with this thread thankyou I learned a whole lot during the process.
and you did it all by your self with no help, FANTASTIC!
Again, I measure the chamber first then form cases to be fired, others choose to fire first and that is a problem, after firing a case in their chamber the reloader becomes a case forming reloader, again, when I fire a case in my chamber(s) I eject cases that are once fired, again I form first then fire.
F. Guffey
Again, I measure the chamber first then form cases to be fired, others choose to fire first and that is a problem, after firing a case in their chamber the reloader becomes a case forming reloader, again, when I fire a case in my chamber(s) I eject cases that are once fired, again I form first then fire.
F. Guffey
It was written before you had the "I be dammed' moment, and that was after a link was posted providing 'MUST KNOW' information regarding your reloading bad habits or bad Internet advise.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58127-55.html
"to the rifle you claim you have, did you read the instructions, you rifle could have -.001 head space, your rifle could have .000 head space, your rifle could have +.001 thousands head space, why are you backing the die off .005 thousands, your rifle cost $2,600 +? When you pay that kind of...." I left out the part where 'THAT IS A GUARANTEE'.
F. Guffey
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58127-55.html
"to the rifle you claim you have, did you read the instructions, you rifle could have -.001 head space, your rifle could have .000 head space, your rifle could have +.001 thousands head space, why are you backing the die off .005 thousands, your rifle cost $2,600 +? When you pay that kind of...." I left out the part where 'THAT IS A GUARANTEE'.
F. Guffey
fguffey
I am having a hard time understanding your posts.That said your method of using feeler gages serves no useful purpose that I can see unless your swapping your die into alot of different presses using the exact same shellholder.
Most competition reloaders set the shoulder back so they feel a slight drag on an empty bolt(no firing pin assembly or plunger).
It doesn't matter what you get with a feeler gage as none is ever used.
Most use a barrel gizzy or stub cut from the reamer used to build the gun to determine how far the shoulder is being setback.
If your moving the shoulder 0.002 and the cases don't fit the area in front of the web has expanded.
If your screwing your die down farther to size the base more you are automaticaly pushing the shoulder back further than is necessary.
Ultimately the brass must fit the gun and what most shooters do is to keep on screwing the same incorrectly sized die down until the brass fits there chamber regardless of the amount of shoulder setback.
Lynn
I am having a hard time understanding your posts.That said your method of using feeler gages serves no useful purpose that I can see unless your swapping your die into alot of different presses using the exact same shellholder.
Most competition reloaders set the shoulder back so they feel a slight drag on an empty bolt(no firing pin assembly or plunger).
It doesn't matter what you get with a feeler gage as none is ever used.
Most use a barrel gizzy or stub cut from the reamer used to build the gun to determine how far the shoulder is being setback.
If your moving the shoulder 0.002 and the cases don't fit the area in front of the web has expanded.
If your screwing your die down farther to size the base more you are automaticaly pushing the shoulder back further than is necessary.
Ultimately the brass must fit the gun and what most shooters do is to keep on screwing the same incorrectly sized die down until the brass fits there chamber regardless of the amount of shoulder setback.
Lynn
Lynn you helped out a ton thankyou very much.
Fguffey no matter what knowledge you have it you load it with sarcasm it has no value. And oh by the way the rifle I do have is headspaced at 1.631 how do I know this. If you have experience with the weapon other than internet links you learn very fast the included instruction manual has your headspace written in it. Not typed as part of the generic instructions but written by the guy who chambered it. And yes I am very new to reloading and did not doubt my measuring tools now I know better. Please do not post on any of my threads as your attitude has cast discredit on any information you may have
Fguffey no matter what knowledge you have it you load it with sarcasm it has no value. And oh by the way the rifle I do have is headspaced at 1.631 how do I know this. If you have experience with the weapon other than internet links you learn very fast the included instruction manual has your headspace written in it. Not typed as part of the generic instructions but written by the guy who chambered it. And yes I am very new to reloading and did not doubt my measuring tools now I know better. Please do not post on any of my threads as your attitude has cast discredit on any information you may have
Similar threads
- Replies
- 11
- Views
- 729
- Replies
- 66
- Views
- 4,320
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.