case prep and press questions

[favload]

I have read the tech. articles on this site about reloading and have gained lots of good information. However, as with everything it seems some disagree on specific steps in the area of case prep.
1. I would like to know if lubing the inside of necks before bullet seating is what the folks in the know are doing? I have never done this before but I am trying to reduce velocity spread and along with neck tension this seems like a good idea. Is there a perfered wax or lube folks are using? Is there something around the house that could work for this? I have read somewhere that fired brass has a coating of carbon that acts like a lube. What about new brass?

2. What's the deal with different size deburing tools for the inside neck area. I have always used the old RCBS tool,45 or 60 degree bevel I think) should I be using something with a smaller angle for flat base bullets?

3. should I invest in a neck expander die? Some say use it some say dont. I have a no turn neck .272 factory chamber and am not turning case necks at this time. Not sure how much this would help, its another grey area for me.

4. How do you know when an old single stage RCBS or Redding press is ready for the bone yard? Is there a specific ammount of ram play I can measure for?? Mine is 25 years old and has some slop in it but I think they all do don't they? How much is too much? I have put white lithium greese on the ram and sleve this helps but not sure if it is best practice or not.



Thanks for the help.

 

[spclark]

1.) Lubing case necks to improve neck tension isn't worthwhile IMHO. Some folks use moly powder to lube necks before seating bullets, but the reasoning is different. Since the neck is supposed to open up a bit when the powder begins to burn, lube is only going to burn off once the gasses start to pass the bullet, so whatever brief interval it's actually in contact with the bullet just beginning to move is irrelevant. Necks need to be uniform, round, and of even temper to effect best & most consistent release.

I polish my necks with the next larger size bronze bore brush, chucked into a drill press & running at about 300 - 350 rpm. This is done as the next-to-last step before priming for reloading; the last step is to blow the cases out with compressed air.

2.) Different strokes.... What some prefer for some bullets may not be what others prefer for what they shoot. I use a Harrel's 22 degree carbide deburring tool for VLD bullets & everything else. If your RCBS works - is it still sharp? - for you, fine.

3.) What kind of neck tension are you getting now? An expander die - with a no-turn neck - may very well open your necks up too far & render them unsuitable for your chamber. I don't know any rifle-shooters who use one, but there might be one or two out there... somewhere.

Pistol cartridges used in suitable rifles don't count here: those will benefit from an expander die before seating bullets.

4.) Unless you use those presses to seat wheel bearings or jack up your tractor to change wheels, both will outlive you.

Grease is OK but kind of messy; lighter weight oil,I use 30W on mine) in moderation is sufficient.

 

[Winchester69]

1.) The inside of case necks require lube if an expander is being passed through them. The lightest trace of Imperial on the mouth of the case is sufficient. The case necks respond well to the recommended polishing before seating the bullets.

2.) The low-angle,VLD) tools provide a longer chamfer that holds the bullet in straighter alignment at the start of the seating process. A worthwhile tool.

3.) An expander is necessary for ironing out the dents and rounding the mouths of new or dinged cases. If your sizing die has the expander ball, it is not needed.

4.) The runout of your sized brass and loaded bullets are indicators of things gone awry, including a possibly worn ram and/or bore. A micrometer will tell you if the ram is uneven. Check with the manufacturer; they may have an oversized ram to correct the situation. If the bore is worn and you're getting runout that is common to all calibers loaded,eliminating other variables), then a new press may be in order.

The ram requires periodic cleaning and re-lubing. Many use a synthetic motor oil; my preference is for a high-pressure grease. I use Tetra grease for my guns and find it very satisfactory as a lube for the ram and hinge-pins.

The other key to avoiding wear is eliminating contamination. I don't de-cap on press. The carbon from the spent primers goes directly to the ram area and makes a very capable grinding compound when blended with whatever lube is present. Over a period of time it will contribute to ram/bore wear.
.

 

[rayjay]

Get a case concentricity gauge and you will be able to see if you have any issues with your reloading set up.

What brand of dies are you loading and what cartridge [ I would assume 6br but being sure is better ].

 

[favload]

I am reloading for 6BR among others. I just got a concentricity gauge the other day but have not used it yet. I am currently using standard Redding dies. I noticed my fired cases,3rd reloading) have between .002-.008" runout. Not sure if its my press, dies, chamber,or a combination of everything. I have 100 new Lapua casses and want to start off right this time. I was going to buy some Redding bushing type dies but was told by some they were unnecessary for a factory chamber and that standard dies could produce the same results. Not sure what to do. Looking back it seems like my 2nd loading in fire formed brass was not as accurate as when I just loaded new brass. Again, could be the press, dies, or chamber. I guess I could measure the casses out of the gun before and after they go through the dies. This can narrow it down to the dies or press. I really want an arbor press with Wilson dies but don't know if another $300-400 or so is worth it. I would rather spend the money on a custom barrel.
thanks for the tips

 

[rayjay]

For a 6BR I would send off 3 fired cases to Harrell's Precision and get one of their semi custom dies. There is a review on this site's home page. Harrell's only makes PPC and [6-30]BR dies [ I am pretty sure ]. For all others I would get a redding FL sizer or body die and send it to JLC as per another review on the home page.

Bushing dies are the way to go but imo, neck sizing dies create as many problems as they solve.

 

[Travelor]

I have an OLD RCBS RockChucker. I bought it over 45 years ago. Over the years no telling how much ammo has been loaded with it, but I would guess in the 100,000 range or more including swagging and case forming.

I started noticing the run out increase in my loaded ammo and began investigating why. I found the ram/bore of the press to be loose. I called RCBS about what could be done and they told me to send the press in and they would repair it FREE! They replaced the ram and bored out the way for it. Good as new now.

What kind of service is that!

That press will indeed outlive me!

George Toney

 

[Forum Boss]

2.) The low-angle,VLD) tools provide a longer chamfer that holds the bullet in straighter alignment at the start of the seating process. A worthwhile tool.

A couple thoughts in response to above:

A. It's very, very easy to "overtrim" your chamfer with the VLD tools particularly the K&M tool. If you remove brass too far down from the neck you've potentially ruined your brass.

B. Something like the Holland tool, used CAREFULLY, can make bullet seating easier, but I'm not sure I've seen an improvement in accuracy. Most of the best groups I've ever shot have been with necks chamfered with a standard 45-deg "Rocket Tool".

C. I think the most important things about chamfering are that 1) the chamfers are very uniform case to case, and 2) that you don't leave a burr or sharp lip as the result of cutting.

After I chamfer with a 45-deg tool I spin the tool backwards a couple times. This smooths the bottom edge of the cut. Then I run a plastic brush in the neck in an effort to remove any small burrs.

 

[rayjay]

I added a new twist to my chamfering. I use the 45 rocket and then turn the case mouth back and forth a few cycles on a green Scotch Brite pad I have laying on the bench. I do a decent chamfer on the inside and just a touch on the outside.

I used to barely chamfer on the inside but noticed hard seating when I went to Wilson seaters with an arbor press. Adding a touch more chamfer really lower the seating pressure without having to decrease the neck tension.

 

[favload]

Thanks for the info guys. I have a few more questions.

A. I am thinking on buying an arbor press and going with Wilson dies. Does the neck die size the case at all beyond the neck and does it do the decapping for you? Would this be a better route to go than Redding dies?


B. Is the Sinclair arbor press $120 the same as the Harrell Tooling press $85? They look the same to me. Is this press any good?

thanks
jer