case neck sorting tool

[lurcher]

got the itch to buy a new tool and have been thinking of getting a case neck sorter to cull nonconcentric brass new. I already have a mitotoyo ball mic but I find its too slow for bulk sorting.

The two I am considering are the sinclair and the redding, (and there are probably others) as they can be had for under $100. Anyone got any pearls of wisdom on which of these tools is best? Also I understand they work best if you prep the case mouths first by this I assume chamfer and run an expander mandrel through them?

Finally I have always run with the cheap dial indicators that come with tools from the likes of K&M and sinclairs how much better is a decent quality indicator and what are the respectable brands? Just how bad are the cheap indicator dials?

 

[amlevin]

Just how bad are the cheap indicator dials?

You might be surprised to find out how bad they aren't. I have several cheap Dial Indicators or run-out indicators that work just fine. If they suffer in quality it's usually their inability to withstand abuse rather than being accurate enough for handloading.

 

[artbosco]

I've got the Sinclair Concentricity Gauge with the Digital Indicator and it works extremely well: http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/concentricity-gauges/sinclair-concentricity-gauge-prod37479.aspx

 

[mikecr]

In itself, I don't see an issue with indicators for readings. They are accurate enough.
But you'll get more accurate readings with a well setup ball anvil.
It's the point reading instead of an average/overall type reading provided with an indicator off a mandrel.
You might replace the mic itself with an indicator to speed things up, but you need the ball anvil for the point reading.
It's the same as a pin or tubing anvil.. Not as good as a ball.

$100 is cheaply wasted, but it's harder to add the costs of bad decisions, time, and components wasted.
I'll try to assemble pics to demonstrate here.

 

[ftrrookie]

I use the Redding case neck gage. Works great much faster than a ball mic. Came in really handy when I mixed up a bunch of cases that had been turned with ones that hadn't. The only thing I can say bad about it is that it will not stand on it's own. It has to be mounted on something. I just mounted it to a piece of wood and clamp it to my bench when needed.

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

I built one like mikecr and it's the bomb! Works great and mike instructed me how to build it. JVON

 

[lurcher]

Mike Is your one something like this one built by Chris long and featured in a 6mmbr bulletin some time ago? except with a ball instead of a cylindrical guide for the case neck?

really keen to see some pics as I have a friend who is an engineer who may be able to help me build one. Alternatively could you build a ball anvil to fit the likes of the sinclair gauge?

 

[tenring]

[quote author=lurcher Finally I have always run with the cheap dial indicators that come with tools from the likes of K&M and sinclairs how much better is a decent quality indicator and what are the respectable brands? Just how bad are the cheap indicator dials?
[/quote]

I have some cheap dial indicators that are not accurate. Some time ago, I found an indicator made in Japan of good quality, called "Teclock". I have three of these now. All read to 0000. I like them a lot. Found em on e-bay. About $35 each.

 

[lurcher]

I just found this seems reasonably priced I wondered if anyone had tried it and how well made/accurate it was?

 

[mikecr]

The Chris Long style won't provide new brass readings as accurate as a tubing mic w/ball anvil.
It's difficult to describe why this is, but I'll try.
The issue is thickness variance from case forming, not just around the neck, but from mouths all the way to webs. And new brass already has donuts, with necks thinner at mouths than near neck shoulder junction, which is not always linear. This thickness change is for the most part -inside the necks, because cases were formed from the outside.
When you press an inside taper against a pin/post you're crediting the inside taper as linear and flush against a post for good measure. It could be, but less likely with new necks. There also has to be enough inside clearance for the neck to press flush against a pin/post under the indicator tip force. With turned necks, mandrel expanded, a pin/post could provide good readings.
A tubing mic with a pin would have similar issue, but with a little more force provided by the mic threading/clutch.
A tubing mic with a ball anvil, removes all potential issues.
In all cases you must have a mouth stop to set depth of reading, even if it means modifying a tubing mic.

To speed up readings an indicator could be used in place of a mic, but it would have to be a really good indicator capable of accuracy at .0001"(like a mic), and you still need a ball anvil inside necks as an indicator does not press with much force. You need point to point contact to pull this off.
Nobody offers anything like this with enough accuracy for our use. So it might be a bit pricey to build. But I think it would be very nice function-wise. Maybe a Sinclair neck mic(with the stand), and it's mic replaced with a really good indicator, and using bushings for a mouth stop.

 

[mikecr]

I just found this seems reasonably priced I wondered if anyone had tried it and how well made/accurate it was?

It's not accurate enough for neck thickness measure, and neither is the tubemic I posted pic of above. I had looked into these before.

 

[lurcher]

Cheers mike that clears things up that mitotoyo ball mic indicator thing looks perfect especially if you put a sleeve on the anvil so each case is indexed at the same depth what is that thing called -Found it

 

[mikecr]

That thing is really nice. Just need better accuracy

 

[bigedp51]

Mike Is your one something like this one built by Chris long and featured in a 6mmbr bulletin some time ago? except with a ball instead of a cylindrical guide for the case neck?

really keen to see some pics as I have a friend who is an engineer who may be able to help me build one. Alternatively could you build a ball anvil to fit the likes of the sinclair gauge?

My gauge doesn't have all your brass and is screwed to a short section of 2x4 and clamped to the reloading bench. But a quick 360 degree spin tells you all you need to know about your neck thickness for under $90.00.

Both gauges do the same exact job, both have precision diameter mandrels and a gauge and you get an instant readout of case neck thickness variations.

And both gauges were in the same article here, and as the Chinese say its "Cheaper, better faster".

Tools for Measuring Case Necks
Consistent Necks Enhance Accuracy

http://www.6mmbr.com/casenecktools.html

 

[mikecr]

Keep drinkin the kool-aid...

 

[bigedp51]

Keep drinkin the kool-aid...

got the itch to buy a new tool and have been thinking of getting a case neck sorter to cull nonconcentric brass new. I already have a mitotoyo ball mic but I find its too slow for bulk sorting.

You can drink kool-aid when sorting case necks because drinking alcoholic beverages will screw up your readings.

Measuring brass to the gnat's A$$ depends on the cost and quality of the rifle and the size of the bug hole groups you want to shoot.

My finance minister has informed me "WE" are going to Southern German and Austria after Thanksgiving for Christmas Market (Chistkindlmarkt) and on a Caribbean cruise in 2015. This means my Red Ryder bb-gun and $90.00 gauge will have to do.

My finance minister was just bitching last week about the money I spent on "OUR" new grill.

Now excuse me for not drinking kool-aid, I have to practice for Bavarian Christmas Market beer halls. :

Kool-aid my gluteus maximus!