Cartridge for deer in the forest.

[Savage99]

I have had good success hunting bucks in the VT forests.

This was hard hunting. The hunter success rate was less than 10%. The requirement was that a legal deer have at least one 3" spike.

I would take any safe shot I could get at a deer. My choice of rifle was and is the 99 Savage in .358 Winchester. All loads were handloads with the 200 Winchester Silvertip and when that was discontinued the Speer 180 gr.

I practiced at running deer shoots and could hit running deer when necessary.

I would not use a 223 for this hunting? It's just not powerful enough. i would have to pass up some shots.

Would you use a 223 for such hunting?

I bring this up because in another forum someone said the 223 was good for deer and that anyone saying it was not was commenting on their own marksmanship!

 

[Rem6br]

I personally wouldn't hunt deer with a 223 or anything below a .243. As for hunting deer in the forest in close range it's pretty hard to beat the old faithful
30-30 cal. Now don't get me wrong a .358 will get the job done handily but so will
a .444 marlin which I feel is a damn good cartridge for deer in the brush.
My weapon of choice for all around deer hunting is a .308

 

[Savage99]

Rem6br,

Thanks for the calm and well written response.

What is not as much fun on the forums is when someone calls names or insults because they can't answer or rebut another's post.

I recall a shot I made on a good sized running buck on a hill near the camp in VT.

I jumped the buck in a hardwood forest at about 30 or 40 yds away. The buck started out downhill but I remembered to shout that word that stops them! Shout "Maw".

Instead of just stopping the buck turned around and began running uphill past me, Uphill they go a lot slower!

The rifle was my old M70 Featherweight in 308. The bullet was my hand loaded 150 Core lock.

 

[Rem6br]

Pretty good story I got a good visual as I read it. Amazing how we never forget each and every hunt
on which we take big game, and that my friend is why I love to hunt!

 

[Old Navy]

Can't remember all the deer I have taken but I can remember all the good ones that I missed. Later! Frank

 

[placek59]

Will a .223 kill a deer? sure it can. Humanely... not always. It is also not legal in many states.

I have also seen videos of people killing hogs with air/spring guns. That doesn't mean it is the tool for the job.

I have killed quite a few with a .243 and think that is about the minimum for deer. It also depends on where and how you are hunting, as I'm sure you guys are aware. If I am sitting in a stand watching a field, a .243 with a 4-16x scope is great. If I am walking thick timber, I'll take my .30-30 with open sights and a side mounted 4x. It was mentioned before, that many calibers will get the job done, otherwise life would be boring and we would all only have two guns... right?

I'm not trying to attack anyone or anything, just adding my .02
I would also love to have a sav 99 in 358!

 

[Glenn Powell]

Using a 223 for deer requires really good bullet placement and angle, IMO. Using a 223 for big game is lime riding a crotch rocket, super light and fast, but falls apart when it hits hard stuff. The 358 is what I see as a 3/4 ton pickup, big, not very fast, but will plow through some pretty rough obstructions. The flat nosed bullets for the 356 would be my choice for woods hunting with the 358. The flat nosed 200g bullets are perfect for 358/356 impact velocities you would encounter at timber hunting distance. Might even want try the new 200g Hornady FTX bullet.

 

[bheadboy]

great discussion, i have to say my thought on the 223 is no - especially in the forest.

my own experience has been in heavy Ga woods for years i used 300 sav mod 99 with 150 horn hand loaded to about 2600 - then swithed to 7-08 with 140 sbt.

then my sons with rem 788 in 30-30 with the 125 sierras,

lots of deer between the 3 of us all under 40 yards except one at about 125.

Bob

 

[2506]

Like has been said the 223 will kill a deer but so will a 22LR. Both bullets have to be placed well without having to go through a bunch of deer to get to the vitals. Most anything pushing at least 120 grs of controlled expanding bullet in the 2000 to 3000 fps velocity will do you well in the woods for odd angle shots. Most any of the leaver actions from 30-30 to 45-70 does a really good job. I have used a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and 35 Remington in the past with great success. The Marlin guide gun in 45-70 with a 1.5 to 4 power scope would be my choice today for woods hunting. It will handle anything you come up against.

 

[people]

Is 223 enough? Yes especially at the closer ranges forests provide. As you should know you should not try to bust brush with it.

 

[GSPV]

"Brush busting" is a fallacy. Clear shot or no shot.

 

[Hopkins]

It would be a shame if anyone made the decision to acquire or use a .223 to hunt deer based on the fact that its adequate under good circumstances to harvest white tails.

 

[GSPV]

I'd rather have a slug gun if they were my two options...and I really don't like slug guns.

 

[bricktop]

308 Win. Cheap ammo, components, and plentiful load data (when there aren't general shortages like right now). I have a Tikka T3 Hunter in 308 and it's dern near the perfect, light woods gun.

 

[bheadboy]

Savage, it seems to me reading these responses there is a lot of agreement, pushing the envelope to the lighter/hi velocity rounds is not recomended, it is really a matter of someone letting the deer take the risk of a bad result, -- not very sporting.

243/6mm rem to 308 seems to be the spread with 100gr to 150 noted, 444, 45-70 etc all work but not as readily availalbe in the ammo department.
scopes not more than 4x needed peeps work great but need binoc to check horns
Bob

 

[CaptainMal]

The 223 does not really have much energy with those typically light bullets.

Ironically they are usually pointed and may actually slice through brush to hit a target better then some bigger, fatter ones. Only thng is they lose what little energy they started out with rather easily.

Forget the little 223. Use what you have or get something also good, like a 160gr. FTX bullet at 2,400 fps out of a ............ 30-30 of course.

Good luck with your hunting.

 

[timeout]

I'd rather have a slug gun if they were my two options...and I really don't like slug guns.

I live where only slug guns could be used for deer most of my life, so I've used them a bunch. A few years back they opened us up to rifle. Some said the sky was falling and there would be a rash of damage and accidental shootings. That has not happened. We have also had a very liberal season in both time and number of deer we can kill. This was due to CWD in the herd. I have shot quite a number of deer with a .223. IMO the .223 is far superior to the slug gun any day of the week. If you enjoy the art of trailing wounded deer, go for the slug gun. I've also seen deer wounded with 300 win mags and get away. Yes, it is always about shot placement. I neck shoot deer every chance I get. I can only remember one .223 shot deer getting away on me and it was my fault, I made a bad shot. I probably would have been able to get that deer but it went onto posted land. My wife is very recoil sensitive. She deer hunts with a .223 and gets deer every year. She made a Texas heart shot on one last year at a rangefinder verified 160 yards. It did not go but a few feet and dropped. Lucky? Yes, but she could never in a million years accomplished that with her slug gun. I shoot deer with .243 and 25-06 also. I would probably quit deer hunting in this area if I had to go back to the slug gun.

 

[XTR]

A lot of people want to justify what they do. There are some people who want to use their AR to hunt, (UM, ok, but not with a 223 upper on it) There are people who take head shots and sling shots out there at stuff other than coyotes at 600yds +.

Personally I like my 7-08, I built one to replace the 308 for deer, and in heavy short range places, I like my highwall 45-70.

Nope, no 223s for deer here, 243 would be as small as I would go.

 

[timeout]

Personally, I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just telling of actual experiences with the .223 and others. I have other rifles for deer, including a 25-06, but I would not hesitate to take deer to 200 yards with the .223.

 

[5spd]

I used a Marlin 95 in 45-70 for thick woods when I hunted/lived in those areas in the 70s-80s. The .358 will do it for your lifetime.
Yes a .223 will drop a deer, would I use it myself, NO as I have much better guns starting with the .243.
This year we can use a .22cal on large game here in WY, minimum weight is to be 60g bullet. I still wont use mine for deer or antelope.