Cartridge choice for Savage LRPV

[ballisticsman49]

Ive decided to go with the savage m12 LRPV. However the varminter is offered in many very good long range cartridges. I want to shoot to 500 and beyond so therefore the 204 ruger is not appropriate. Im finding it hard to choose between the 223, 22-250 and 6mm norma br because they are all such great long range cartridges. Because i need to shoot long high BC projectiles i would be looking at these three options as my choices. This is what savage offers on there website.
1. 22-250 REM 1 in 9"
2. 6 NORMA BR 1 in 8"
3. 223 REM 1 in 7"

If i went with the 223 i would shoot 90 berger VLD's with the BC of .55 they would be excellent long range bullets.

My main question is i guess is if the 22-250 could stabilize 90 berger with a 1 in 9" twist barrel. If they shot them fast enough. I have done a lot of reloading with the 22-250 and i no it can deliver excellent accuracy wether it would be fast enough to stabilize a 90grainer is my question.

What are your thoughts on this delimma? Any opinions will be appriciated

 

[BradY]

The 6BR and 105gr amax would be darn impressive on varmints over 500m the 22-250 with the 75gr amax would be too. My choice would be the 6BR

 

[js223]

The 90VLD is not going to be stable with the 9 twist, even at 3200 which might be faster than they'd really go in the 22-250. This is by calculation, I don't have a 22-250 to test. I think the 75s and 80s would be the best usable ones for the 9 twist.

The 6BR could be the best choice, the 8 twist will allow the 105VLD to be used.

The 223 7 twist should be fine with the 90VLD.

 

[Rodbolt]

You want to shoot "to 500 and beyond", are you shooting known distance targets? Egg shoots, varmints, big, little, game? High volume shooting? What distance is the norm or 90% of shot distance you have or will fire? Need more information to even get close to giving good advice on choosing a cartridge/barrel twist.

 

[SS427]

I've been shooting .223 and .22-250 for quite a few years now. Just got my first 6mmBR. I will be selling some of my .223s and my .22-250 to fund more 6mmBR rifles. Beyond a doubt the 6BR is a better choice for accuracy and it is more versitale. I'd been lurking around this website for at least two years before I bought my first BR. What a waste of two years.

 

[ballisticsman49]

Ok yeah sorry about the limited info. 90% of my shots will be at 500 or less but i do want to shoot out to 1000 once i learn to read wind better. It will be target shooting mainly with a few varmints also and all will be known distance targets
Thanks js223 75-80 will be great shot a super fast velocities with the 22-250 im sure. However with the 223 and 90grainers, the savage only has a 26 inch barrel, how much velocity can i expect form that?
Thank you all for your thoughts, keep em coming!

 

[Travelor]

I have both a 12 LRPV in 223 1:7 twist and a 6mmBR 1:8 twist. I have been reading extensively and testing heavy bullets in the 223 and have found no one that is getting the 90 gr bullets to shoot well.

Go to this link and then page 16 to read about testing the 90 grain bulelts in the 223 Remington in Canada. http://www.dcra.ca/Marksman/Winter%20Spring%202008%20Edition.pdf

I have finally found a load that is getting the Berger 75 gr VLD's shoot well out to 1000 yards in the LRPV - 25 gr of H4895 in a Lapua case with Wolf Small Rifle primers.

The 6mmBR shoots VERY WELL with 107 gr Sierra MatchKings and the Berger 105 gr BT's at all ranges including 1000 yards. I have made NRA classification of High Master with this gun and 105 gr Berger BT bullets.

So, my vote is enthusiastically for the 6mmBR.

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I have a Savage Model 12 Varminter Low Profile chambered in 22-250 with a 9" twist. I called the folks at Savage and asked them what would be the heaviest bullet this gun would stabilize and they told me a 75 gr. bullet max. I suppose it would depend on the 75 gr. bullet construction. A 75 gr. VLD probably would not stabilize.

If I were you, I would go with many of the gentlemans suggestions and get a 6br. I'm just waiting to get the funds around to get one of my rifles rebarreled and chambered to this cartridge. Heard nothing but praise for this cartridge.

Mike

 

[6BRonwheels]

The 6mmBR is supperior to the 22 calibers in all aspects of exterior ballistics. The only advantage of the 223 or the 22-250 is recoil. Even with recoil, there is not a lot of difference. The 6BR using the 107 grain SMK with a MV of 2900 in a 12 pound gun should give you a recoil energy of 4.66 pounds, compared to a 22-250 shooting a 75 grain bullet/MV of 3250 giving you a recoil of 3.65 pounds. I suggest the 6mm BR also.

 

[ballisticsman49]

Excellent that sounds great. Is it hard to get the 6BR shooting accurately for example is it highly sensitive to seating depth and requires alot of case prep? or will it just shoot well with a good load with good brass and a well matched powder and primer combo.
Im really excited to get this rifle now. do u have any optic suggestions? for long ranage?

 

[SS427]

I think a caveman could reload and get a 6BR to shoot good. My first few groups during load development produced groups in the 2s with one in the teens. I put the bullet at the lands and went with recommendations from people on this forum for loads.

 

[fdshuster]

ballisticsman49: In reference to your question concerning 90 gr. bullets and barrel twist rate(s): Sierra recommends a 1-6.5 twist to stabilize their 90 gr. HPBT. I personally believe the 90 gr. ( from any maker) is just too much of a good thing. If you can't get the job done with an 80 gr., switch to a larger caliber, like the ever excellent 6BR, Dasher, etc. Just my opinion.

 

[Steve Blair]

I have two Savage 12Fs, one came with a 6BR 8" x 30" barrel. My intention was to pull the barrel and replace it with a Shilen Select but decided to try shooting it and I'm glad that I did. In calm conditions, the rifle is reliably shooting .7-.9 at 300 yards. Attached is the best group, but several others were very close. You will have no problem shooting good groups with a 6BR LRPV.

I also bought a McGowen 10" x 30" .308 Win barrel that is shooting Sierra 190 molys almost as well as the 6BR does Sierra 107 molys. Easy barrel switching is one of the Savage ownership benefits.

 

[ballisticsman49]

Thats excellent thank you all 6BR it is seen as I am a caveman

 

[Joe O]

I wouldn't discount the 204 ruger in the Savage LRPV.Although not listed on their site,I understand it's available in a 1:9 twist.Would shoot the 50gr Bergers,and may stabilize the 55gr Ber,although Berger recomends 1:8 twist for the 55.All the other choices are good,just burn more powder.

 

[jo191145]

I wouldn't discount the 204 ruger in the Savage LRPV.Although not listed on their site,I understand it's available in a 1:9 twist.Would shoot the 50gr Bergers,and may stabilize the 55gr Ber,although Berger recomends 1:8 twist for the 55.All the other choices are good,just burn more powder.

Joe, I read that same post on another forum. I called the next day to order one. Just to set the record straight Savage is not offering a 204 in 9 twist at this time. An obvious misprint on a flyer someone received at a gun shop. Not the first time thats happened either.
Maybe someday........

 

[Dgd6mm]

6BR 1-8 twist.

 

[jonbearman]

I have one in .223 and wish it was 6mmbr. Go with the 6mm bore you will love it. Get back to us if you do with an accuracy report. Keep Shootin!

 

[Laurie]

Unless you plan to shoot competitively in F/TR (restricted to .223 and .308) as part of your long-range target shooting I'd say 6BR with the 1-8" twist every day. The .22s cannot compete with the 6 ballistically (wind drift etc), and will prove more difficult to get them to shoot really accurately, especially at long ranges.

I wouldn't want to put anybody off trying the 0.224" 90s in 1-7" .223 Rem - I'm going to do this very thing myself this season as an alternative to .308W in F/TR - but these bullets have a reputation for being 'tricky'. It's very early days for super-heavy bullets in the cartridge and the first model on the market, the Sierra MK, has not worked out well at maximum velocities especially in the Sierra-recommended 1-6.5" twist rate. So the jury is still out on the .223R in Fullbore, Palma and F-Class at long ranges (800-1,000yd). All the top shooters might be using it in a few years, or maybe none! (It is an excellent mid range cartridge and has rightly become a popular alternative to .308W in events run up to 600 yards range, though.)

There is no external ballistic advantage in .223 Rem over .308W at 600-1,000yd shooting unless it is in a discipline where the latter is limited to 155gn bullets and the former is allowed 90s - as is the case in Canadian F-Class. The real benefit, and this is why various people are giving it a go, is recoil reduction. .223 Rem runs at a third that of a full-house .308W and that's valuable in rifle control in shooting off a bipod.

So, going back to the original question, choosing 6BR is a no-brainer unless you fancy F/TR competition. If the latter, I'd recommend starting with 80s that have a proven record and do shoot very well at long ranges in .223.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[TnTom]

I think you'd be disappointed overall trying to get good consistent groupings shooting anything over 77 gr in a 1:9. I shoot a BVSS and will change barrels soon and it wont be a 1:9 and it wont be a .223.

It does well meaning .4 - .5 at 200 when the stars are aligned and I'm on my game but I think its at its limits at 77gr.

If you want to go 500 why add to the challenge. A 1:7 twist or even 1:6.5 if your heart is set on a .223.

6BR is what its all about (or there abouts)