Carbon ring vs carbon stain

[Alex Wheeler]

I get cleaning questions all the time. The carbon ring is very often a topic. You need to train your eye when using a bore scope. Look at a land and realize its .003"-.004" tall. Then go look at that carbon ring. Just because theres color doesnt mean theres height. Now carbon rings can be a problem if they exist. 100% of the time that they have become a problem in my personal experience is when a bronze brush was not part of the cleaning process. Its the first question I ask.

The other thing is case length. I never did understand why some think a longer case or shorter chamber would help with this. If anything its the opposite. Bottom line, if you clean your barrel every time you shoot and use a brush, you should never have an issue. I have never went after the carbon ring in a barrel. Just because theres a dark spot at the end of the chamber does not mean its a problem.

 

[Ray Gross]

... I never did understand why some think a longer case or shorter chamber would help with this. If anything its the opposite ...

I could not agree with this more.

 

[Jud96]

I think a lot of problems come from people telling guys they need to clean their barrels spotless and look like a mirror every time they shoot. I think people are panicking over a tiny bit of carbon or copper they didn’t 100% clean out. Cleaning is important, but cleaning the barrel to look like a mirror every time isn’t a good idea in my opinion.

 

[DShortt]

I'm in the midst of conducting some cleaning experiments on my own barrels currently. I'm curious to see what does and doesn't affect accuracy in my personal situation. Everyone's situation is different so everyone will have to develop their own routine that works for them IMO.

 

[L.Sherm]

I dont worry to much about my hunting rifles, with the carbon ring thing I do check though.
I do more on my 17 and 20 cal sage rat stuff because sometimes ill go 200 rounds before I clean, never that many on my hunting rifles not even close

 

[K22]

I get cleaning questions all the time. The carbon ring is very often a topic. You need to train your eye when using a bore scope. Look at a land and realize its .003"-.004" tall. Then go look at that carbon ring. Just because theres color doesnt mean theres height. Now carbon rings can be a problem if they exist. 100% of the time that they have become a problem in my personal experience is when a bronze brush was not part of the cleaning process. Its the first question I ask.

The other thing is case length. I never did understand why some think a longer case or shorter chamber would help with this. If anything its the opposite. Bottom line, if you clean your barrel every time you shoot and use a brush, you should never have an issue. I have never went after the carbon ring in a barrel. Just because theres a dark spot at the end of the chamber does not mean its a problem.

I have used a bronze brush ever since I started cleaning centerfire rifles in the 60's. That's the way my dad taught me. It kind of makes sense, doesn't it? I mean the mechanical action of the bronze bristles would appear superior to just patches or nylon brushes. Also, how are you going to harm a steel barrel with a bronze brush if you're using a bore guide and the proper bronze brushes (looped ends and brass cores)? But what do I know, I am just a varmint / predator hunter.

I never heard of a carbon ring until I got a computer and went on the internet and found that I was doing everything wrong according to the internet "experts". Yet my rifles still shot very well, at least to my varmint level accuracy standards of 1/2 to 5/8" moa.

I just don't understand why cleaning a centerfire rifle has become such a big deal.

 

[K22]

I think a lot of problems come from people telling guys they need to clean their barrels spotless and look like a mirror every time they shoot. I think people are panicking over a tiny bit of carbon or copper they didn’t 100% clean out. Cleaning is important, but cleaning the barrel to look like a mirror every time isn’t a good idea in my opinion.

Amen.

 

[D Coots]

There was no such thing as a carbon ring.....until Boyer's book came out.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I just don't understand why cleaning a centerfire rifle has become such a big deal.

Probably because of the exposure to competitive bench rest shooters???

 

[ShtrRdy]

How do you guys feel about the black layer on the lands and center of the grooves in the first ~ 12"?

 

[DShortt]

There was no such thing as a carbon ring.....until Boyer's book came out.

I've had enough carbon build up at the end of the case mouth in the chamber using Varget in a .223 and 4350 in a .260Rem that it was leaving scratches on a chambered bullet. I removed it and the scratches went away and accuracy returned.

So call it whatever you want or ignore it.

 

[jelenko]

I'm not seeing a carbon ring at the end of the chamber - I only see carbon in the freebore area.

My understanding is build up of carbon in the freebore area can cause increase in pressure and degrade accuracy.

 

[D Coots]

I've had enough carbon build up at the end of the case mouth in the chamber using Varget in a .223 and 4350 in a .260Rem that it was leaving scratches on a chambered bullet. I removed it and the scratches went away and accuracy returned.

So call it whatever you want or ignore it.

Sure, I'm not saying it wasn't a thing. Just saying everyone talks about it today more so, due to the book.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I have used a bronze brush ever since I started cleaning centerfire rifles in the 60's. That's the way my dad taught me. It kind of makes sense, doesn't it? I mean the mechanical action of the bronze bristles would appear superior to just patches or nylon brushes. Also, how are you going to harm a steel barrel with a bronze brush if you're using a bore guide and the proper bronze brushes (looped ends and brass cores)? But what do I know, I am just a varmint / predator hunter.

I never heard of a carbon ring until I got a computer and went on the internet and found that I was doing everything wrong according to the internet "experts". Yet my rifles still shot very well, at least to my varmint level accuracy standards of 1/2 to 5/8" moa.

I just don't understand why cleaning a centerfire rifle has become such a big deal.

Tell it like it is

 

[Alex Wheeler]

How do you guys feel about the black layer on the lands and center of the grooves in the first ~ 12"?

Hard to say without seeing it. I dont mind some streaks but solid black would be a problem.

 

[GetReal]

Bottom line, if you clean your barrel every time you shoot and use a brush, you should never have an issue. I have never went after the carbon ring in a barrel. Just because theres a dark spot at the end of the chamber does not mean its a problem.

Interesting. Thx for posting.

I do specifically soak a coupla patches and saturate / swab the carbon ring area. Then give it a light scrub with a bronze brush (in addition to swabbing / brushing the whole bbl.) It works. I get good accuracy.

Is my carbon ring area treatment unnecessary?

 

[BoydAllen]

Alex, thank you. On the case length thing, when you get far enough back in the neck of the chamber, it cleans with normal bronze brushing, and if your cases are short enough so that they stay within that area they will never be pinched by the deposit. That leaves only the thickness of the deposit as a concern, and in my experience generous amounts of bronze brushing will take care of that. One thing that I see is people who have not experimented with different amounts of brushing, checking as they go with a bore scope. I have always brushed somewhere near one cycle per round fired. There seems to be a story going around that after ten cycles no further benefit occurs and all you are doing is wearing out your brush. I have proven that to be false. Again, thank you for shedding some much needed light on this.

 

[GetReal]

Alex, thank you. On the case length thing, when you get far enough back in the neck of the chamber, it cleans with normal bronze brushing, and if your cases are short enough so that they stay within that area they will never be pinched by the deposit. That leaves only the thickness of the deposit as a concern, and in my experience generous amounts of bronze brushing will take care of that. One thing that I see is people who have not experimented with different amounts of brushing, checking as they go with a bore scope. I have always brushed somewhere near one cycle per round fired. There seems to be a story going around that after ten cycles no further benefit occurs and all you are doing is wearing out your brush. I have proven that to be false. Again, thank you for shedding some much needed light on this.

I've always had success with 10 - 14 brush cycles for up to 40 rounbds fired. But you make an interesting point about scoping the bore at 2 / 4 / 6 etc brush cycles, to see how the carbon deposits fare.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Yes cleaning is necessary for the whole barrel, as is rust prevention.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

The other thing is case length. I never did understand why some think a longer case or shorter chamber would help with this. If anything its the opposite. Bottom line, if you clean your barrel every time you shoot and use a brush, you should never have an issue. I have never went after the carbon ring in a barrel. Just because theres a dark spot at the end of the chamber does not mean its a problem.

I first heard about the idea from the book Metallic Cartridge Handloading by McPhearson

Amazon.com

I have not tested it, but the idea made sense to me. Basically, he says to not trim the brass so short that you create a large void from the end of the case mouth to the junction typically 45* into the freebore. He claims, that junction acts as an eddy and collects carbon, so by having the brass closer to that junction, you limit the effect.
I would still think though, you would have to clean regularly because any carbon build up would just act as a shortened depth and thus a constriction point.