Carbide or HSS

[elginrunner]

When doing barrel work (416 stainless), which would be the better turning tool, or threading tool, carbide, or HSS?

What about drilling for gas port in AR15 style barrel, carbide, or HSS chucking reamer??

I know it sounds silly that anyone that had the knowledge to do the job should know what tool to use...... I will be attempting these jobs shortly, and just don't want the added trouble of using the inappropriate tool.....

Thanks,
Brock in AR

 

[jonbearman]

When ever you can use a cutter made from carbide,if you can afford it.I would get a hss reamer for the gas hole as carbide reamers can be costly. Make sure you use a center drill when starting the gas port so the drill doesnt wander.

 

[drumcorpschamp]

Brock,

416 stainless is a favorite steel in the machining business for its free machining qualities. You certainly don't need carbide tools to cut it. Having said that, if you do not have the skills to grind turning and threading tools to the proper geometry, the correct carbide inserts would probably be a better choice. (Just making a statement, not quesioning your abilities.)

For drilling and reaming, HSS cutting tools are the way to go and they're a lot more affordable too. ;-)

Jerry

 

[elginrunner]

I can grind HSS but im not that experienced. For some reason i enjoy making chips more than making sparks!! Only problem is that i dont have that calibrated eye for rake angle and so forth... I probably need to watch a few mor tubalcain videos on youtube...

Thanks to all who replied

 

[The Viper]

Elgin,

You can get HSS indexable inserts and they are inexpensive. You can even buy them one at a time. The Arthur R. Warner co. in Latrobe, Pa. makes them. They are hardened to 64-67 Rockwell and you can sharpen them with a wet stone in 30 seconds. Ask for Mike Warner at 1-724-539-9229.

 

[jscandale]

Viper,

I have a question. I know this might sound like a smart a$$ question, but I assure you, it's not. Why use HSS inserts rather than just grind a cutting edge on some HSS tool stock. Always willing to learn a new trick!

Thanks,
JS

 

[shortgrass]

I can grind HSS but im not that experienced. For some reason i enjoy making chips more than making sparks!! Only problem is that i dont have that calibrated eye for rake angle and so forth... I probably need to watch a few mor tubalcain videos on youtube...

Thanks to all who replied

Skip the u-tube videos, buy a protactor, and practice. It works!

 

[Robert]

Viper,

I have a question. I know this might sound like a smart a$$ question, but I assure you, it's not. Why use HSS inserts rather than just grind a cutting edge on some HSS tool stock. Always willing to learn a new trick!

Thanks,
JS

I have visited the site of this company, and simply regret there is no more rechnical description available.

This is, IMHO a wonderful idea fr the mateur machinist...

T15 (my 1.3202) is a high Tu-Va-Cr-Mo-Mn-alloyed HSS, and this tips concept is certainly a great idea, as those tips are more forgiving for hobby machining than carbide counterparts.

I do presume the bar stck HSS one can usually find is not of this quality, and, even if it is, remain te burden of grinding them to form and angles.. grinding tools to right angles is an other practise....
R.G.C

 

[The Viper]

Viper,

I have a question. I know this might sound like a smart a$$ question, but I assure you, it's not. Why use HSS inserts rather than just grind a cutting edge on some HSS tool stock. Always willing to learn a new trick!

Thanks,
JS

Hi JS,

Everyone who uses a lathe should attempt to learn the skill of grinding a tool blank. It comes in very handy for the odd angle or configuration like turning a round head on a knob. Tool blank cutting tools have always been the standard for lathe work, when using HSS cutters. There is nothing wrong with grinding your own tool bits. Most guys who visit this forum are very experienced machinists, who learned the skill of grinding tool blanks MANY years ago. It's a real art to grind and re grind the same angles to perfection. Grinding tool blanks is also the most price effective way to keep costs down in a shop.

However, time does move on and forward. HSS indexable inserts are uniform, they will handle all the same tasks that a tool blank will, except those specialty angles or configurations. They are easy to sharpen, with a inexpensive wet stone, hence no grinding skills needed. They are far less expensive than carbide indexable inserts. Most of the people who email me for information are just beginners. A great number of them are in their 50's and just want to turn metal when they get home from work. Everyone of them don't want to turn at high speeds using carbide and none of them really feel comfortable grinding tool bits. It's just a preference thing. There are other options out there besides tool blanks.

 

[Preacher]

I use Warner HSS tooling a lot, even though I can grind one out of a blank, it's a lot easier to pull one of Warner's out of the box and get to work quick.... especially the threading inserts, that are exact, each and ever time.
Carbide is meant to cut quick and hot, and I don't care for either quick, or hot....

 

[The Viper]

[/quote]

I have visited the site of this company, and simply regret there is no more rechnical description available.

This is, IMHO a wonderful idea fr the mateur machinist...

T15 (my 1.3202) is a high Tu-Va-Cr-Mo-Mn-alloyed HSS, and this tips concept is certainly a great idea, as those tips are more forgiving for hobby machining than carbide counterparts.

I do presume the bar stck HSS one can usually find is not of this quality, and, even if it is, remain te burden of grinding them to form and angles.. grinding tools to right angles is an other practise....
R.G.C
[/quote]

Hi Robert,

What type of technical data or discription would you like on the indexable inserts? The Warner Tool Co. does sell several types of HSS tooling bits. They even have pre ground precision tooling bits made from the highest quality steel available. If you need more technical information, please feel free to call Mike Warner. He always makes time to talk to machinists and hobbyists alike. 1-724-539-9229.

Bob Pastor

 

[Robert]

Hi Robert,

What type of technical data or discription would you like on the indexable inserts? The Warner Tool Co. does sell several types of HSS tooling bits. They even have pre ground precision tooling bits made from the highest quality steel available. If you need more technical information, please feel free to call Mike Warner. He always makes time to talk to machinists and hobbyists alike. 1-724-539-9229.

Bob Pastor
[/quote]

Thanks, Bob. Although my inerest is only informative, I will Email contact Mike Warner. I do not know of a smilar product on the old cntinent...

R.G.C

 

[The Viper]

http://youtu.be/LKGkkGFsF50

Hi Robert,

If you go to the link above, you can see a short video on the inserts.

Merry Christmas,

Bob

 

[jscandale]

Thanks Viper,

Fortunately for me, or unfortunately, however you look at it, I had no choice but to grind my own tool bits out of stock. I was also fortunate to get instructions from experienced folks with gray hair and many years in the business. I also have a ton of high quality tool stock, probably more than I'll ever use in my life. Just one of those things...

Thanks,
JS

 

[edpmedic]

I get my stuff for tool blanks from enco USA. Get the complete illustrated guide to precision rifle barrel fitting. By John Hinnant. Lots of good info and illustrations.
If you can afford it get from Harbor Freight the tool grinder machine. You use water on the wheels and it comes with tables you can set at different degrees.after a while you will be doing tool bit grinding with no problem. I use the carbide inserts sometimes but I also use Rustick water soluble
solution with my lathes. PTG reamers just one company to look into but there are others.
I find HSS bits work fine and carbide more fragile

 

[butchlambert]

I think the biggest problem with carbide are expense, lack of knowledge of the higher feeds and speeds necessary for a good finish. Most of us are not doing production and I get a much better finish with HSS tooling.

 

[hepburn45110]

Why would you spend $300 on a first rate barrell and then use a $3.00 cutter on it. Carbide lathe tools are far better than hss. If you prefer not to spend for a insert system then buy a braized carbide tool, ie Carbaloy, Kenametal etc. You can grind them, shape them, and sharpen them.

 

[The Viper]

Hi Hepburn,

You have to remember that most of us are old and feeble. Life is moving fast enough and we like to enjoy our lathe projects. Very few hobbyists are comfortable with 600-800 rpms when turning metal. HSS is really a great choice for us old people just learning. You can get a great finish with less heat at greatly reduced speeds. Most of us started with lathes in our less than golden years and very few have the patience to grind tool blanks, so we started using carbide inserts for the convienence. I got lucky and found the HSS indexable inserts. Now I only grind for specialty turning projects. As far as a $300.00 barrel and a $3.00 tool. HSS in any form will always out perform carbide at low speeds. Us old feeble people just move slower. It's time for my second nap of the day.

 

[johara1]

Viper, i can relate to what you are saying, and i live close to Latrobe, Pa. I think i'll give Mike a visit..........jim

 

[Robert]

You can grind them, shape them, and sharpen them.

Yes, you can...using a special wheel and you will neer get them as sharp as they were originally...unless using a diamond wheel....
R.G.C