Can't resize down enough

[Wolfdog91]

Ok so this may be a stupid question but have y'all ever had a die that ran out of adjustment I guess ?
So I recently got a H&R super varmint in .223. Bought a box cheap PMC .223 so I could get some fire formed cases. Fired em measured them with my Hornady tool and these where my measurements

Came out to a average of 1.450" . Since it's a break barrel I figured bumping my shoulder back .001-.002" would be good but no matter what I do I cannot bump these shoulders at all. I mean I've anneled my brass ,used imperial, screwed it all the way down and nothing. Only thing I can figure is my shell holder is too tall or my die is too long ? Is that a possibility? I've tried both a Lee and rcbs she'll holer and it's basically bottomed out a 1.4510" Or does my gun just have a stupidly short chamber ? About to go on midway and order a new die anyway but wanted to see what was a causing this.
Thanks
Edit: now that I think about it I remember somone mentioning in another one of my posts about possibly needing to take material off a shell holder. Would sanding on a flat surface with say some 1000grit wet sand paper be good enough? I'm not trying for bench rest quality loads or anything would be ecstatic with 3/4 MOA lol

 

[Martin52]

New brass, now once fired - one question, will the once fired empty brass fit in your chamber (before being resized) ?

 

[Wolfdog91]

New brass, now once fired - one question, will the once fired empty brass fit in your chamber (before being resized) ?

Yes actually it will

 

[philip brousseau]

Will the sized brass fit in the chamber?

 

[Bill Norris]

Yes. Taking material off the top of the shell holder haa been done to correct your problem many times. Some have chosen to shorten the die base as well.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Will the sized brass fit in the chamber?

Yes but the unsized will as well so not really sure what to think about this.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Yes. Taking material off the top of the shell holder haa been done to correct your problem many times. Some have chosen to shorten the die base as well.

Awesome , thanks !

 

[edwardware]

Came out to a average of 1.450" .

I'm not convinced you have a problem, and the fired cases fitting the chamber are a hint. Brass springs back (down) in size after firing, and fireforming continues to grow cases for 3-4 firings as they conform all the way out.

Load, shoot, and reload a few times, and there's a good chance that you'll find the chamber is actually 1.455ish, and your sizing dies are just perfect without any work.

 

[ebb]

I think Edward has hit the nail on the head. The cases have not expanded enough to need sizing yet.

 

[dellet]

Do you have any unfired you can measure for comparison?

It would be good to know how much they expanded in the chamber. If there was no growth, it might be cause for concern, possible short chamber.

More likely they grew .004 or more and were too short to begin with and its a mild load.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

As long as the fired, unsized brass will chamber properly just neck size load and shoot. At some point it may reach a length where it won't chamber, a 0.002 bump will work and so will your full-length die.

 

[Rat Rifle]

I’m am H&R/NEF shooter. I agree with much of the above. For Your application and accuracy requirements, forget about.002” shoulder bump. Since Your cases chamber they are sized enough. These are Minute of Deer rifles. They do not benefit greatly from precision reloading. Get a LEE Loader Kit and have fun. They will chamber.

Yes, thinning the shell holder, or shortening the die will work. Also, if You want to spend the money, the RCBS SHELL HOLDER KIT is an option.

But as mentioned, You don’t really have a problem. Precision reloading should be applied where it applies

 

[RustyInBend]

I use the Redding Competition Shellholder Set ... use the .010 to set the die height, and then usually either the .004 or .002 shellholders give me just the right bump. And it's probably cheaper than a new set of dies.

 

[divingin]

I'd suggest a couple of things before you start grinding stuff:

First, measure new and fired brass to see how much (if any) it's grown. Personally, I'd take the advice to essentially neck size until you start getting resistance when chambering.

Second, to see how close you are to actually being too long to chamber, try a piece of tape on the case head (Scotch tape is fine.) If it still chambers, try 2 layers of tape. Just to ballpark where you currently stand with respect to length. You may be trying to set the shoulders back with the brass already way short which is why your die won't do it.

Third, while sizing (with a case being sized and fully in the die, press handle at the stop) is there a gap between the die and shellholder/plate? If so, check lube practices, and/or screw the die down a bit more.

 

[SSL]

I'd suggest a couple of things before you start grinding stuff:

First, measure new and fired brass to see how much (if any) it's grown. Personally, I'd take the advice to essentially neck size until you start getting resistance when chambering.

Second, to see how close you are to actually being too long to chamber, try a piece of tape on the case head (Scotch tape is fine.) If it still chambers, try 2 layers of tape. Just to ballpark where you currently stand with respect to length. You may be trying to set the shoulders back with the brass already way short which is why your die won't do it.

Third, while sizing (with a case being sized and fully in the die, press handle at the stop) is there a gap between the die and shellholder/plate? If so, check lube practices, and/or screw the die down a bit more.

Excellent advice, but I would add that if there is a gap when the case is inserted into the die at full stroke, your decapping pin is probably set too long and bottoming out on the case head before the case can fully enter the die. Fought that for an hour with a new set of dies before the light finally came on in my mind! Felt like I hadn't learned anything in 60+ years of loading!

 

[K22]

I'm not convinced you have a problem, and the fired cases fitting the chamber are a hint. Brass springs back (down) in size after firing, and fireforming continues to grow cases for 3-4 firings as they conform all the way out.

Load, shoot, and reload a few times, and there's a good chance that you'll find the chamber is actually 1.455ish, and your sizing dies are just perfect without any work.

Yes - I believe this is spot on.

One of the few times I ever saw a head separation was with one these break open rifles in a 243 Win. that my buddy had who was oversizing his cases.

In trying to help him I discovered that cases for that rifle did not need full sized, just zero shoulder bump. We started with a new set of cases, and he never had to bump the shoulder back for as long as I can remember with this rifle.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Do you have any unfired you can measure for comparison?

It would be good to know how much they expanded in the chamber. If there was no growth, it might be cause for concern, possible short chamber.

More likely they grew .004 or more and were too short to begin with and its a mild load.

Yep ! I just measured the five I had averaged out to 1.454.....which really confuses me because it's for firing brass to 1.450

 

[Wolfdog91]

So measured a new round like y'all reccomended and we'll

 

[dellet]

Yep ! I just measured the five I had averaged out to 1.454.....which really confuses me because it's for firing brass to 1.450

I was typing while you posted and can not really see the length of the fired case.

Are you saying that loaded un-fired rounds measure 1.454" and the fired cases measure shorter at 1.450"?

If this is true, check diameters of un fired, fired, re sized.

This is a problem with very low pressure loads, but it is hard to believe that factory ammo would be that low of pressure.

New brass is often sized short and thin to chamber in anything that might be out there.

Before the brass will push the shoulder forward, it has to expand in diameter. The case gets fatter and shorter before it starts to move the shoulder forward.

It's possible that the sized cases will measure longer than unsized because you are pushing the the sides in, shoulder forward.

Another tell tale sign is that the primers pop out of the case to fill the headspace gap because the case is not under enough pressure to push back and reseat the primer against the breech face. Common in low pressure rimmed cartridges like 30-30.

This also happens with many sub-sonic 300 Blackout rounds.

Try the tape trick mentioned to double check headspace,

I would load and shoot again with the absolute minimum of sizing, maybe just enough to get far enough down the neck to hold a bullet. Staying at the low end of the data, just in case you have a tight chamber.

It will be interesting to see if that pushes that shoulder forward like normal.

 

[Martin52]

The once fired brass is likely not fully fireformed. You have confirmed it will fit your chamber, so setting aside any measurement issues, this once fired brass can be neck sized, reloaded and fired a second time. Then I suggest you measure again and let us know.

Might be worth re-confirming your measurements for a) new unfired rounds b) once fired and c) twice fired before full length sizing. Check your caliper and attachments are aligned too and not off centre - easy to do and miss.