Can a Tubegun be truly competitive in F-Class shooting?

[Kenny474]

What I want to know is if a tubegun would be a good choice for a 600yd F-Class rifle. I know they have been used successfully in several different disciplines, but I was wondering if these were anomalies or if this is something repeatable?

If I am to build another rifle, I want something versatile that can also be used for prone or position shooting as well. And I don't feel most wood or glass stocks are as versatile as the tube stocks are. But, I have never shot one so I have little to really base my judgment from.

I also want a rifle that I can allow my brother to try prone shooting as well, so it will need to fit two people who are built differently. This is my main reason for looking to a tube gun.

Thanks

Kenny

 

[watercam]

There are a lot of shooters having a lot of success with them for Palma and Long Range - I don't think you can go wrong if you are building a rifle anyway.
Mike T.

 

[Gadget]

In a word " YES "

We have two working at my club, both have blocks mounted to the fore end for use with Ped Rests.

We have the Magpul butt stocks and you can adjust the length of pull about 1 1/2"
Link to site http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=39528/Product/Magpul_AR_15_Precision_Rifle_Stock

Go for it you will not regret the change.
Do they work, well for me a triple posible at 3,5,600 to win one of our interclub's then backed it up the next interclub shoot with win's at 7,8,900 not perfect's but still a win.

Graham
Australian F class Open

 

[HPMike800]

I have a tubegun and they are very flexible. Jerry Terney won a 600yd benchrest match with one about a year ago. Gary at CSS sells bag rider accessories. When I bench my 6BR tube gun (no bag riders) I can shoot 1/2 min most of the time and I'm no bench shooter. So they can't be to bad.

For position shooting they are great. I'm sure you would be happy with a tube gun when you got it running.

Mike

 

[Laurie]

Kenny,

I'd agree wholeheartedly with Watercam. HPMike and Gadget. There is nothing at all to stop a tubegun working as well in F as in sling-shooting disciplines. I like the straight line layout that in my view makes the rifle more controllable on the bi-pod / rear bag or rest and bag set-up. (You don't say if you're thinking of 'Open' or F/TR.)

If you're considering F/TR, bi-pod attachment is a minor issue, the Harris AR-15 stud adaptor in modified form is commonly used on the slot on the underside of the forend tube. If 'Open' and using the CSS version (the one I'm familiar with), Gary Eliseo makes bag riding attachments, front and rear, that work really well and the rifle will track smooth and straight in the bags. (If shooting F/TR, you can put a short length of hard plastic tubing over the buttstock main-tube to ride the bag and set the rear-end up so it is in effect upside down compared to the normal prone-shooting position putting it at the bottom of the assembly.

Downsides? Mostly weight and that only affects F/TR. The B1 version that I use is a hefty overall weight with the 3lb Barnard Model P action and trigger installed. The Remington 700 version with Remy or cloned 700 profile action will be around a pound lighter. Even so with a 2lb 4 ounce Sinclair type bi-pod and say 2.5lbs of Nightforce scope and mounts, you may have to sacrifice barrel profile to stay within the F/TR 18lb 2 ounce (8.25 kg) overall weight limit. With a 30" heavy profile Broughton I had to use a light Weaver T36 scope and Burris Signature Zee rings plus a lightweight custom-made bi-pod to squeak within F/TR weight. (I'm now using it in 'Open' off a front-rest with the CSS bag-riders added and a heavy variable scope, so no problem there.)

The other factor is whether you like inline stocks or not. Not everybody takes to them. This probably affects your 'sling shooting' more than 'F'. You would almost certainly have to use very different buttstock settings between the two - no problem as long as you keep a record of the changes and / or put resgister marks on the components. (Whenever I switched between F/TR and BR modes, I'd turn the entire buttstock assembly through 180 degrees and reposition the buttplate height-wise, as well as affixing the rear bag-rider rail.)

Laurie,
York, England

 

[Kenny474]

Thanks for all the replies.

I have yet to make any real decisions on whether I would set it up for use in FT/R or F-Open. I am more thinking of setting up a rifle that my little brother can use for prone shooting and so he could possibly join me in shooting F-Class as well. I will be shooting F-Open myself, so I had thought of just chambering it in 6BR so we both use the same rounds, but .308 is another thought that would allow it to be used in FT/R as well as Palma. Making up 2 barrels is one thought, but it's something I will need to think about a bit, as well as the entire build itself.

I do plan to use the rifle a bit myself, as I will be doing all load work for it and plan to try it in competition before handing it over to my brother to be sure it doesn't have any issues and will function 100% and is also capable of the accuracy needed.

I need to finish my rifle before I start another project, so this won't materialize for a little while anyway. I need to do a bit of talking with my brother and see if he is even comfortable with trying a .308 or if he would prefer a smaller round. He has limited center-fire experience and mostly practices prone shooting with his 22lr, so stepping up to the recoil of a .308 is going to be a very large step for him. He is still pretty young at 16, and didn't start shooting until about a year and a half ago. (We have different mothers, and his is completely against firearms) So in reality, this is all still very new to him. That's why I had thought a 6BR would be a good starter round, as recoil will be minimal in such a heavy rifle, as well as the size of the case isn't so intimidating.

Thanks again. I do appreciate all the advice.

As a final note, I had thought of using a Borden Tube-Gun action, as I liked all the good things German Salazar had to say about it. Though I may end up with a trued Rem 700 if finances won't allow the Borden.

Kenny

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Kenny,

I have not seen anyone shooting one in F, but with the bag riders mentioned above I think you would do just fine with it. Really, a pretty solid plan for a "double duty" rig...

 

[Steve Blair]

As a final note, I had thought of using a Borden Tube-Gun action, as I liked all the good things German Salazar had to say about it. Though I may end up with a trued Rem 700 if finances won't allow the Borden.

I just ordered my second Borden TG action. At $800 for the short, single shot; they are a pretty good deal. A stock Remington would certainly be cheaper but after truing it will be close to the Borden's price.

 

[flatlander]

I used Pierce TG actions in both of my Eliseo tubeguns (R5 RTS); at the time, no one was selling bare M700 actions, so I went with a M700 clone instead. If I didn't already have a couple of dedicated LR prone rifles in Robertson H&H stocks, I wouldn't hesitate to use either the R5 or RTS instead. It may take some experimenting to find the right combination of adjustments to get totally comfortable with a tubegun buttstock, but if you're willing to spend a little time at it, it'll pay off.

As far as accuracy potential vs. a custom action in a conventional prone stock - I doubt there's enough to measure, if any. The tubegun's sleeve will lend a lot of additional rigidity to either a M700 or custom clone action - after that, it all comes down to the quality of the bbl. you're using, nad how good ajob is done fitting & chambering it..

 

[Scott Harris]

I use a MAK with a Defiance tubegun action. I got the AR15 bag riding accessories from AR-X Enterprises: http://www.6mmar.com/Benchrest_AR.html and use an A1 buttstock for F-Class. I have a second WOA adjustable buttstock for when I eventually start shooting prone. Defiance makes an awesome action and you can customize many of the options, so be sure to check them out: http://www.defiancemachine.com/

 

[Rustystud]

I have built several of Gary Elesio's rifles. I personally have a S1 with switch barrels( 6mmBRX and 308) that will shoot in the teens at 100 yards and half moa from 600 to 1000 yards. The tube rifle will do it's job if the shooter does his. I have considered setting one up for short range Bench Rest. It is pretty simular to what the late Shelly Donaldson did. I beleive Gary Elesio has developed a first quality product.
Nat Lambeth

 

[JohnO]

I once had a MAK repeater but to me it was too clunky. At the time I had some physical problems which may have contributed to the problem. If I had to do it over again, I would rather buy the Elesio.