Caliber decision for a prairie dog rifle - need a little help please!

[fat_46]

I'm at the point where I need to decide on caliber, and I thought I'd made my mind up to get a 6br. However, when I called my barrel guy he started persuading me to go 6x47 instead.

Here's what I'm looking for:
Accuracy
Barrel life
reasonable expectation of a 650 yard range,while I know both rounds will go farther, my skills aren't up to that level)

When I start weighing the pros and cons of each round I start to get a little fuzzy.

Loads for the 6br are well established, and brass is easier to come by. 6x47 has a little more oomph, but I don't know if I necessarily need it.

Its going into a Savage BVSS, with a Bushnell Elite 4200 8x32 on top.

Any experience, suggestions, etc. are GREATLY appreciated.

 

[Sin_arms]

im building a savage rifle in 6mm br with a lothar walther 1/8 twist. it will get me out farther than I can shoot and should put the pounding on the prairie dogs.

 

[people]

I had a R5 in 6mmBR built and I have been using her for shooting PD and I am very happy. So far all I have been using is 65gr V-max out of it. I have been kicking around the idea of trying out some Berger 90gr bullets but I have about 4,500 of the V-Max left.

 

[PGS]

If you want good barrel life the 6br is the way to go

 

[Stoner25mkiv]

I've been going to SD for the past 5 years for dogs. I've used .17HMR, .223, .223AI, 220-250, .243Win., 243WSSM, and have shot with guys using those plus 20Tac, 204, 6.5-06AI, 308's and a host of others I don't recall. The 223AI has gotten me to 600 plus yards. The WSSM has gotten me to 914 yards with fair regularity at 750 or so. That, in a Cooper Montana Varminter. I'm in the process of building a 6br now to try to make those longer shots with more consistency, plus, to try and get past 1000yds. You probably wouldn't tell any difference between the 2 rounds that you're considering, but why not go with the 6br. There's more support and knowledge surrounding the 6br than just about any cartridge out there. All that experience and knowledge didn't happen by chance. It's a great round with everything anyone would want in a longrange p-doggin round.

 

[MarkS]

6BR will do it with less powder. I use one for Va groundhogs with kills past 600 yds. The 6 X 47L is a fine round, but will cost a little more for shooting.

Mark Schronce

 

[vmthtr]

My vote is 6 BR. Recoil, barrel wear and cost of brass are my reasons.

Mike

 

[LarryDScott]

Im sure I'll get lots of flack on this, but the 6BR as accurate as it is it's not a VOLUME PD rifle. By volume I mean the bulk of your shooting is between 0and 400 yds. Why choose a caliber that has a trajectory like a rainbow, more recoil, costs more to shoot than the 20 caliber family,tactical/practical/204R. The 20s have very low recoil, and shoot flat as a ray of light, excellant wind resistance, and have the ability to reach the distance where your 6BR takes over
A 6BR comes into its own at a known long distance. This is provided you have a good range finder, and are up to speed on scope clicking.
I know someone is going to tell me to shoot lighter bullets in the 6BR to help flatten it out. Yes that works to some extent, but defeats the entire purpose of a good long range accurate round.
Why waste a good custom barrel shooting shorter range targets when a 20 cal can do it and do it more efficiently. Its a point and shoot caliber. It does more for less than any caliber in existance. I replaced the 17 Remington/223/22-250 with 20cal rifles, because of the calibers superiority
OBTW I do have a fast twist 6BR,a 6X47L and a 6.5-284 and they are for anything the 20s cant take care of over 500. If I could be so lucky,'one shot one kill' with these calibers. Larry in western Ky.

 

[MarkS]

Larry,

I agree the 6BR may not be a high volume round,cost of brass for one thing). Everyone should have a 204, 223 range gun for volume.

I agree the 8 tw 6BR with heavy bullets, has a trajectory like a rainbow. But it sounds like you have not tried a 6BR in 14tw. Mine will run a 70Gr blitzking at 3600 f/s. My 204 will run the 39gr Bk at 3750 f/s. It does not take long before the 70gr bullet to catch the lighter bullet in drop and have nearly twice the engery. I have kills on Va groundhogs past 600yds.

Mark Schronce

 

[jerrschmitt]

Truth be told, It don't matter. The Prairie Dog won't know if he was hit with a 65 VMAX at 2700 FPS or a 35 VMAX at 3700 FPS. No matter what you're shooting you'll make hits and you'll miss some. The point of the exercise is to have fun doing it.

That being said, it's fun to have a new custom built rifle but there is no perfect caliber or perfect rifle. What ever you take shooting there will always be that thought way back in your mind that if you just had a new 5.72MM wiz bang loudenboomer you could have made that missed shot.

 

[LarryDScott]

Mark, Thats my problem, For PDs I started with a 12 twist 6BR smithed by Bob White at Shooters Corner. It shot 70gr bullets fantastically on paper. But given the different yardages from 100-500, I would shot over one and under the next one. I just couldn't figure the bullet drop from shot to shot. I was never so disapponted in my life in a caliber that was touted by so many to be a great PD caliber, and it is for long range.
If you know the distance, dial the scope in and shoot. Its a fine, accurate caliber, but I'm only going to use it when my point and shoot 20 calibers wont reach the distance. Larry in western Ky

 

[LHSmith]

No personal experience with PD's, however, those friends who are addicted to hunting this varmit have often urged me to accompany them on a tour to South Dakota offered this advice:
#1- be prepared to shoot a god-awful number of rounds
#2- there is no scope recticle too small....they must be tiny critters

Therefore, if I ever decide to try p'doggin', I would take a 6BR and leave the over-bores at home.

 

[cliffy]

A .223 Remington will remove the hide off any prairie rat at any reasonable range. A 6mm in any configuration will merely add severe, unrequired RECOIL to one's shoulder. A 6mm was designed as a deer rifle with proper bullets for good reason. Down-grading a sixer's potentcy to shoot prairie mice shall kick one's average butt adversely within a few hundred rounds. What fun is that? Stick to .22 centerfires for a pleasant multi-shot day of shooting plains rats. I.E. 62-75 grain bullets fired from .243 Winchesters were designed for 25-45 pound Coyote killing, not for 2-3 pound rats. Even 58 grain .243 fare is no recoil equal to 55 grain .22 loads regarding ground squirrels. Arm appropriately to enjoy sport-shooting to its maximum. When does too much equal more than enough? Owning a .243 Winchester and a .223 Remington leads one to enjoy both worlds of hunting. Cliffy

 

[fat_46]

This thread certainly took a twist I hadn't expected

I have quite a bit of dogging experience, and certainly don't need another rifle. I'm building it because I want to. I generally take 6-8 rifles with me to SoDak. My last trip,2 weeks ago) included the following:
17M2
17HMR
22-250 AI
223 bolt
223 AR
243
280 AI

As you can see - the basics are covered. Aside from the 280,in which I use 180gr VLDs, and was purchased on a mistaken whim)I like light bullets for dogging. 70gr is as heavy as I shoot right now, and I was thinking a 6br 1:8 with 105 or 108s would fit in nicely. I'm at best an average shot, and miss as many as I hit, but that's not the point of it for me.

I like shooting. I like recoil. I like testing myself and trying to improve my loads, my technique, and my rifles.

I also like new toys, which was the point of starting this thread. At the time I wasn't familiar with the 6x47 and was seeking advice.

Thanks to all that responded.

 

[MarkS]

Fat_46,

Sounds like you have the high volume rounds covered. The 6BR or 6 x 47L would make a great long distance round. The 6 X 47L would have a little more powder. The Round I prefer is the 6BRX 6BR IMP. It is about the same as the 6Dasher, Look them on this board). The IMP will give you about 200 f/s over the 6BR. 2900 vs 3050 to 3100 F/S. Barrel lasat a long time. All will give 1000 Yds range for PD.

Mark Schronce

 

[flatlander]

fat_46 - I've been shooting mid & long-range prone with a couple of Dashers & two 6x47Ls for the past several seasons, and now this season a 6BR in a R5 tubegun. Have fired lots of all three rounds off rests on the bench during load development and once in awhile just for the sheer enjoyment of shooting an extremely accurate rifle. Average charge weights with 105-107gr bullets runs from 31grs. in the BR to 34 in the Dasher to 42 in the 6x47. Rifles in all three chamberings weigh within ounces of each other. Top velocities of my 105gr. loads run from just under 2850 in the BR, 3000 in the Dasher, and just under 3100 in the 6x47.

The difference in felt recoil between the BR & Dasher isn't much, but it's real. Jump up to the 6x47, and the difference is more noticable. If I were shooting PDs with a 6x47, it'd have a brake on it. As far as that goes, I'd prefer to have a brake on any rifle shooting 105s or heavier bullets, if for no other reason than to be able to consistently see my hits,and misses). Point is, IMHO, you'd be better off with a BR. Less powder burned, better effeciency, probably slightly better accuracy, and longer barrel life are the benefits I see.

Don't get me wrong - I recently finished another 6x47L with a 30' 7.5-tw. heavy Palma with a Vais brake in a Shehane Tracker stock for both 1000yd. BR & our club's BR Varmint Silhouette game, and I've really enjoyed shooting it, as I do my other two 6x47s. But for PDoggin', I'd go with a BR.

 

[woodbutcher]

I have been to SD twice prairie dog shooting; just back from the second hunt. I took three guns; 204, 17 HMR, and 22/6mm. The 204 was a Savage LRPV and was my main gun. The 204 is excellent out to 400 yards and can be stretched to 500 yds. A spotter is nice to have as I can not call all my shots. The 17 HMR is a good walking varminter for the close ones. I did not shoot the 22/6mm much, but I did get one at 679 yds.

 

[Ackman]

Im sure I'll get lots of flack on this, but the 6BR as accurate as it is it's not a VOLUME PD rifle. By volume I mean the bulk of your shooting is between 0and 400 yds. Why choose a caliber that has a trajectory like a rainbow, more recoil, costs more to shoot than the 20 caliber family,tactical/practical/204R. The 20s have very low recoil, and shoot flat as a ray of light, excellant wind resistance, and have the ability to reach the distance where your 6BR takes over
A 6BR comes into its own at a known long distance. This is provided you have a good range finder, and are up to speed on scope clicking.
I know someone is going to tell me to shoot lighter bullets in the 6BR to help flatten it out. Yes that works to some extent, but defeats the entire purpose of a good long range accurate round.
Why waste a good custom barrel shooting shorter range targets when a 20 cal can do it and do it more efficiently. Its a point and shoot caliber. It does more for less than any caliber in existance. I replaced the 17 Remington/223/22-250 with 20cal rifles, because of the calibers superiority
OBTW I do have a fast twist 6BR,a 6X47L and a 6.5-284 and they are for anything the 20s cant take care of over 500. If I could be so lucky,'one shot one kill' with these calibers. Larry in western Ky.

Actually, that's not right.
The 6BR is very much a volume round. With light bullets it burns about 32-33gr powder, only about 3-4gr more than a .204 and it's going through a much larger hole. The 6BR is NOT a barrel burner.....barrels have comparatively long life and probably a whole bunch longer than a .204. I shoot 55/58gr bullets through mine, velocity is equal to or better than the .204 with 40's.....trajectory and windage are identical. At the same velocity a 6mm/55 will hit a whole lot harder. The 6BR has accuracy no 204 can match. Recoil isn't a factor, that's what muzzle brakes are for.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Three years ago while working in Wyoming I took 850+ pdogs in three weeks with a 10/22 Ruger, max yardage 100. Did this while we were driving back and forth to work. Took the .223 with me but never shot a pdog with it. This year if I go out ther I'm taking the 6CM, I like it better then the 6BR.

 

[bheadboy]

I have to agree with #18 reply, i have been shooting dogs for almost 20 year, if you like to shoot,ha) the action is between 25-350yards, the ocasional shot between 400-600 is a real thrill when you have it, i shoot 500-600 dogs per trip in 4-5 days.
I use a rem 504 22lr CCI mag to 75yd, 221fb 40x hart barrel from 50-300 with Si 50 blitzking at 3000fps and then a 22-250 in a 40x hart barrel 55gr SI blitzking,1x13twist) until i run out of room. shots made with it to 600 an number of times, the 221 to 250-300 beyond count,

you talk about barrel life, by changing rifles re distance you preserve powder, barrel life, recoil, cut noise on closer shots which drives dogs down, then you wait for them to come up etc. head shots with a 22lr are a great sport, just keep the distece to<75yd, the dogs dont go down as the noise is so low, same is true with the 221 fb.

I i could only have one rifle, it would be the 223 stay under 400 or 22br and stay under 550-600

Good luck
bheadboy