If you can muster up $1K you can get an S&W MP15 2 and a base model Savage, Ruger, rem 700, or mossberg. You kill two birds with one stone.
Buying during an election year, safe or stupid?
- Thread starter AAAOA
- Start date
Of course it's not the only choice. But it is the only gun that the election has the potential to effect to a great extent. No one is screaming about banning shoguns or bolt action rifles. Just the threat of this caused guns to go crazy price wise before the last election. All the ramped up activity making ARs has lead to the market being over loaded with ARs and they are at an all time low. Most ARs have threaded barrels already. I don't see your logic at all. If a democrat gets elected prices of ARs will go through the roof and if Obamas second election was any indication the will be unobtainable.
***NOW*** is the time.Well it definitely looks like I'll at least have to start piecing together an AR, sooner rather than later. If I can at least grab the major bits now I can worry about the rest later on. Could probably get it over winter break. Thanks guys.
I will never understand why people went out and decided to hoard thousands of rounds of 22lr.
I will never understand why people went out and decided to hoard thousands of rounds of 22lr.
I'm not as much of a fan of 6.5G as you might think. I chose it thinking the OP might not reload cartridges yet. Actually never owned one but have compared a few side by side to my favorite long range AR-15 cartridge, the 6mmFatRat or 6mmART40, which soundly kicks ass on the other two mentioned in drop and drift. Done 105 Amax at 2915 fps before and won matches with it, though I admit that is a hot load.... Also done 115 DTACS(.61BC) at 2650 which was not a hot load. I have other rifles I can use for deer...
Ha, the old 6.8SPC vs 6.G debate, lol.
I'll say this and leave it alone, there's the windage factor at "long range" where a higher BC bullet will blow less in the wind than a lower BC bullet - ""both starting at the same velocity"", as well as the higher sectional density of longer bullets providing deeper penetration, not to mention also that the higher BC bullet will arrive downrange at a higher velocity which gives more energy at arrival. Plus the 6.5G is a shorter case and takes those long bullets at mag length without eating up as much of the precious powder capacity of the thinner 6.8 case. The farther a bullet gets away from the barrel the more the higher BC bullet has an advantage if compared to the lower BC bullet of the same weight. 6.8SPC with bullets at mag length isn't what I would consider a long range cartridge. 6.5G I would. Though 6.5G pails compared to a 6.5Creed. Never have been a fan of 308 for different reasons even though I own two.
Eh, it's about bullet placement mostly. The distance debate is another one for another day. I think 6.8 or 6.5G would be fine to harvest deer at normal hunting distances where the BC difference doesn't matter much.
The thing people seem to forget about 6.8 SPC is that it has much higher muzzle velocity than 6.5 Grendle. That means Grendle is playing catch-up until about 300 yards when they both are starting to get marginal with retained energy. Past that Grendle does better but for 300+ yard hunting that means a bad choice and a worse choice. If you are just shooting paper, my 6.8 SPC groups fine to at least 600 yards. I could try farther but why? A Grendle will extend that to 900 yards supersonic and a bit more if the bullets handle transonic speeds well. That's ok but my 6.5 Creedmoor is a lot better.
Ethical long range hunting requires a lot more than just a paper accurate rifle, you need a bullet that carries enough energy down range for a clean kill and the skill to place it in a vital area even if the animal is moving in the 2/3 of a second that it takes for the bullet to get there. A 500 yard deer with a 6.5 Creedmoor is a pretty bad idea but nowhere near as bad as the same shot with 6.5 Grendle.
A 300 yard Elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor is probably fine if you use an appropriate bullet. That shot with a 6.5 Grendle or 6.8 SPC is probably asking for too much and not the right bullet.
I don't know what is best for 300 yard Elk in a budget rifle. I doubt it's 6.5 Creedmoor, I just use that as an example because I know it can do it with heavier bullets and higher velocity than Grendle.
Ethical long range hunting requires a lot more than just a paper accurate rifle, you need a bullet that carries enough energy down range for a clean kill and the skill to place it in a vital area even if the animal is moving in the 2/3 of a second that it takes for the bullet to get there. A 500 yard deer with a 6.5 Creedmoor is a pretty bad idea but nowhere near as bad as the same shot with 6.5 Grendle.
A 300 yard Elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor is probably fine if you use an appropriate bullet. That shot with a 6.5 Grendle or 6.8 SPC is probably asking for too much and not the right bullet.
I don't know what is best for 300 yard Elk in a budget rifle. I doubt it's 6.5 Creedmoor, I just use that as an example because I know it can do it with heavier bullets and higher velocity than Grendle.
You are correct that there is very little overlap between the uses you outline. There is no AR15 caliber that is reliably elk capable to 300y, sorry Grendel fanboys. You need an AR because America. Get it first even if you have no means to shoot it.
Once you get out west, find yourself a decent Elk rifle-- 6.5 or 7mm, 40+gr of powder capacity. 6.5 creed is the *smallest* I'd consider, but I'd move up to the 6.5PRC, or a 7-08, or 280ai or (if you never will reload) 7 rem mag. I personally prefer heavy and high BC bullets (Wyoming wind is no joke). So I'd go with the 280/ai and load up something 160gr-175gr.
How much do you consider "much"? From a 16" barrel, a 6.8 SPC will push 90gr at 2860fps (federal load). A Grendel at 16" will push 90gr at 2730fps (AA load).
IMO, that's not "much" higher velocity, but of course, by using imprecise language we can't settle the matter.
The difference in energy between them is < 100 lb-ft. And that difference disappears at ~120y with 90gr loads.
If you step up the 6.8 in bullet weight to the 115gr Federal Fusion load @2470fps, you'll stay ahead of the 90gr Grendel forever. But then of course, the 120gr Grendel load moves out at 2450fps and has more BC to boot, so in the 120gr range, the Grendel never is behind the 6.8. It has more energy at the muzzle and only gains in advantage as range increases.
The Hornady load data is less kind to the 6.8. It shows a 100gr bullet as topped out with 2550fps with a 100gr bullet from a 16" bbl. (only power pro 1200 gives this speed in their data).
The grendel, OTOH, is 2700fps with two powders with 100gr class bullets (which are higher BC than the 5.8 counterparts). This is from an 18" bbl, and 2" do not 150fps make.
To sum up-- with certain comparisons contrived to make the 6.8 look good, it has a slight advantage at best, and compared like-for-like, it is at best equivalent to the 6.5G and only at short range. To the extent either cartridge has a consistent advantage across bullet weights and barrel lengths, that advantage favors the 6.5G.
SOURCES: Ballistic AE app, Alexander arms data, and Hornady 10th edition load manual.
Build the lower, buy the AR upper. CZ is an excellent choice and in 30-06 for hunting about as good as it gets.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Not to encourage necro-posts but 6.8 SPC II chambers can beat those numbers by a lot. I seem to recall velocities near 3,000 fps from 90 or 95 grain Barnes bullet hand loads from 16" barrels. Cavity back bullets probably do better for long range stuff.
I think SPC has an advantage inside 300 but let's say it's even, why deal with all the BS associated with 6.5 Grendle bolts and magazines when you could just go with 6.8 SPC II and have no issues?
If you want to shoot a 6.5 with no issues, go for Creedmoor.
It isn't hard if you try.
I think SPC has an advantage inside 300 but let's say it's even, why deal with all the BS associated with 6.5 Grendle bolts and magazines when you could just go with 6.8 SPC II and have no issues?
If you want to shoot a 6.5 with no issues, go for Creedmoor.
It isn't hard if you try.
Get the AR while you can that could change later only the lower is serialized and you register one weapon then you buy the upper of your choice in different calibers for hunting or target shooting like said earlier in this post that rifle can pull triple duty and basically do it all
A first rifle for hunting at a budget is not hard to find. The Ruger American Predator is light and accurate. It is threaded for a suppressor should you want one in the future. I would recommend a 6MM Creedmoor or 6.5 Creedmoor as ammo isn't hard to get and recoil is not so bad yet they have plenty of power for most things you'll likely hunt. They're good cartridges for either paper or hunting. I would stay away from any shot longer than 200 yards. You can zero at 100 or 150. A decent scope and good rings will drive the cost up to your limit.
The problem with a $35 lower is that by the time you purchase all the other components to make it shoot you're going to be at or over your limit. I'm not knocking the AR, I'm just looking at it from a cost standpoint. Also any AR15 platform is going to be threaded for 1/2-28.
There are other decent budget rifles out there that will fit your criteria. I'd stay away from cartridges that are limited in ammo choices and hard to find loadings. I'd also stay away from hard kicking cartridges.
The problem with a $35 lower is that by the time you purchase all the other components to make it shoot you're going to be at or over your limit. I'm not knocking the AR, I'm just looking at it from a cost standpoint. Also any AR15 platform is going to be threaded for 1/2-28.
There are other decent budget rifles out there that will fit your criteria. I'd stay away from cartridges that are limited in ammo choices and hard to find loadings. I'd also stay away from hard kicking cartridges.
MGYSGT
Silver $$ Contributor
With your budget for an elk rifle (deer, javalina, sheep etc.) look at Savage, Ruger American, TC, in calibers of 260, 308,7mm (Not mag), 6.5 Creedmore etc. Plenty of gun for the game. I leave out the Mags because you don't need them and they cost too much to feed, which will restrict your practice time. When people are talking of AR lowers for $35 dollars, they are talking about stripped lowers. No butt stock, no trigger, no innards at all.
Haha, I think I get half credit. I found a Mini-14 with a gorgeous stock at a price I couldn't say no to. It's an absolute blast to shoot, don't worry though I've still got plenty of mags and ammo. Also scored myself a nice .30-06 and my first handgun because I wanted to make my wallet cry.
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