BUYER BEWARE!

[mao0720]

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/
This website lets you check the validity of an FFL and with give you the address and expiration so that you can cross reference it.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I just saw two top of the line Leupold Mark 4 scopes for sale on a salt lake classified, both were priced at $150 each. One a 3.5x10, the other a 4
5x14. Seller said they were unused and he had received them as a gift. I talked with him and was uncomfortable. Evidentually another person bought both as they were advertised the next day by another person for $650 each, which was quickly lowered to $500 each. Pictures showed both scopes having the same serial number - all of my Leupolds have different serial numbers. Looks like a clever knock-off and I know someone will be fooled by these fakes.

The Leupold knock off scopes have been around since the late 90's, so there are a crap load of them out there......Leupold's web site has the info on them so you can tell the difference....https://www.leupold.com/resources/counterfeit-warning/


Nightforce scopes have also been copied, not the newest greatest ones, the original 10-40x56mm Nitro Point, watch it if you see one for sale!!

 

[dickn52]

https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

When in doubt.....

 

[BOLTED]

Thanks for the link to the EZ Check!

As far as who to contact, I still think that the BATF is most likely the best bet. In a particular case, the Chief of Police was contacted, and it seemed that he couldn't do things that crossed state lines. Most of the time when we are buying or selling, it involves someone from another state. The BATF is able to follow through no matter what state is involved, but it takes coordination with the agents in both states. Action is dependent on both having the time and resources available to work the case. I would imagine that it takes quite a bit of evidence gathering and time for them to get to the head of the snake, and the more people involved, the longer it may take. Unfortunately, until then the bad guys may be left to carry on with business as usual.

I would urge anyone with a concern or problem to use the people or agencies that are available to help. That is what we as taxpayers pay them for, so why not? With concerns about what the government does to chip away at some of our rights aside, the BATF is available to help stop criminals that can potentially ruin things for everyone. Going after, or pursuing someone that stole your money in a firearms deal could be very dangerous for you, or even your family. I'm not saying don't do anything, but be smart about what you do, or how far you choose to get involved. Notify the proper people, and if you want to help, then say so. They may need or welcome your involvement. However... criminals can be just as smart about finding things out about you, as you are about them, and that's a scary thought. Think twice about getting any more involved than you already are. Money is replaceable.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Youre correct- the atf just wants to help. Ask the weavers.

 

[M99]

Here's a trick I've learned that helped me spot a scammer more than once. If there are pics with a questionable listing, right click on the image, then select "search Google for image". Often, Google will match the pic with a listing that is either from another site or VERY old.
Also, if it's an item with a s/n, ask for it then call the mfg and verify that it is at least a legitimate number.

Great Tip that I hadn't thought of previously.

 

[M99]

I got taken for $1500 on a deal one time. Also got an FFL it was real but just changed a couple things on the expiration and address. I found it too be fake after I lost the money and it was fake so I called the ATF and they didn't care at all. Nor did the postal inspectors since it was a money order sent. No one has the balls to hunt down and charge these criminals they just are content to let them get away with it.
Long story short I got my money back the old fashion way with lots of homework on my end. and then I had to make it very clear that if I didn't get my money back it would be a real bad decision for them. even after I got the funds back 6 months later I gave the authorities the routing number for the bank check and all and nothing was done.

Always remember that they are from the government and here to help. Scumbuckets all.

 

[BOLTED]

Asking the BATF or police for help is of course just an OPTION that may or may not work for you.

I was hoping we could keep the posts on the helpful ideas side though, and not get into the government bashing. That's an endless topic.

 

[danny]

I'm hoping a message like this could be posted in the daily bulletin or somewhere that everyone can see it.

I have come across several listings in other gun classifieds websites that have some VERY good deals on rifles, pistols, scopes etc... There are individuals, and an actual ring of people that are posting items for sale that you will never receive if you send a money order. I was almost burned by one of these people on a well known and popular website. You can't trust feedback alone anymore unfortunately. I was sent a phony drivers license and a falsified FFL document, and if I didn't check into it, I would have lost $2,000. The thieves are getting very smart, and we need to be smarter.

You need to double check everything! Call the FFL to make sure they are legit. Check the FFL address and the drivers license address, and get a phone number if you can. Google is a good tool for this. If you have any doubt at all, DON'T buy it. Contact the ATF if you seriously think it may be a scam. Usually, the item for sale is under priced, which is the first red flag, and the seller does not have good knowledge of the technical aspects of it. Ask specific questions about anything you are thinking about purchasing.

I have never had any trouble with anyone on this website, and I like the trust and friendships that are built here. Unfortunately some bad apples are ruining the trust in the gun community, and I'm sad to know that this is happening. Be a smart shopper, don't assume everyone is trustworthy, but be courteous when asking questions. No one likes to be accused of something. As a seller, don't be offended if potential buyers are asking you to go the extra mile to prove you are legit. As an FFL, be aware that if you give out a copy of your FFL, it could be tampered with or altered. A push for something other than just a plain piece of paper that can't be falsified as an FFL copy may be worth your while. Call your local ATF or congress person to help get this started.

Best of luck to everyone,

Arvin

Why would you be getting an FFL copy if the item is sold by an individual? I only get (or accept) an FFL Copy if the rifle is new, from an FFL, or the FFL has a used firearm for sale. My FFL gets a driver's license copy with the firearm from the seller.

Armslist seems to be a hotbed of these kinds of problems if you try to get items shipped to you. With Armslist, I only deal locally, FTF.

Danny

 

[BOLTED]

Danny,

With no feedback listed for an out of state seller, you should be asking them to prove to you that both he and the rifle are legit. Whatever they send you, Google it. Google everything! Names, businesses, FFL's, addresses, photo ID and telephone numbers should all match. Check the FFL in the Ez Check system. Mostly common sense stuff really. If anything seems off, then ask them about it. If it still does not make sense, or gets worse, then don't buy it. If you are really sure he is scamming people, then report it, and then go look somewhere else for what you wanted.

Hope that helps

 

[danny]

Danny,

With no feedback listed for an out of state seller, you should be asking them to prove to you that both he and the rifle are legit. Whatever they send you, Google it. Google everything! Names, businesses, FFL's, addresses, photo ID and telephone numbers should all match. Check the FFL in the Ez Check system. Mostly common sense stuff really. If anything seems off, then ask them about it. If it still does not make sense, or gets worse, then don't buy it. If you are really sure he is scamming people, then report it, and then go look somewhere else for what you wanted.

Hope that helps

I have had to make some reports to Armslist when I found some of the pictures on Armslist from what was most likely the original and legitimate Gunbroker sale. Some or all of those caused Armslist to close the listing. I haven't run into that on Armslist in a while, though.

Danny

 

[Olde Man]

We have a member on this site Tacshooter aka Mike Suissi that is misrepresenting what he is selling. He sold me a "New Kreiger 6BR 8T set up for a Rem 700". I received a used rechambered 24 1/4" long barrel. He sold another member a worn out factory Rem 700 barrel instead of the same "New Kreiger barrel he sold me. Another member bought two barrels and both were not what he stated. We all paid $400 ea for these. He asked to use Pay Pal gift for payment. Pay Pal does not backup any transactions that were a gift. The original posting was Barrels Barrels Barrels

 

[BOLTED]

Danny- Good job on notifying Armslist. You may have saved someone a lot of grief and heartache.

Olde Man- That is sad to hear. Did you contact the "powers that be" for this site and report it? I believe there is a statement about NO FALSE ADVERTISING on here. If you can prove it (old listing and conversations/PM's), he should be blacklisted from this site!

 

[XTR]

Pay Pal does not backup any transactions that were a gift.

Anyone who isn't willing to cough up the 3% to PP and does gift transactions is a fool.

I am the owner of one of the biggest (possibly the biggest) cigar selling forums on the WWW. Scammers show up from time to time, and I can't begin to list the number of times someone has lost money because the did a PP "gift" transaction just to save $9 on a $300 transaction.

I never do gift transactions, I always tell the seller that I'll use PP at the agreed upon price +3%. It's just foolish not to.

 

[LoganDon]

Anyone who isn't willing to cough up the 3% to PP and does gift transactions is a fool.

I am the owner of one of the biggest (possibly the biggest) cigar selling forums on the WWW. Scammers show up from time to time, and I can't begin to list the number of times someone has lost money because the did a PP "gift" transaction just to save $9 on a $300 transaction.

I never do gift transactions, I always tell the seller that I'll use PP at the agreed upon price +3%. It's just foolish not to.

Really good idea

 

[gtl1946]

I posted the statement that Pay Pal does not back up a gift transaction. I was not aware of that when I did the purchase of the barrel. My purpose was to make other folks aware of this. This is also why I am replying again. Mike Suissi aka Tacshooter is a thief.

My FFL holder WILL NOT send out his hard copy of his FFL to travel, where ever . His #' s to use on EZ-CHECK is totally another matter though. As a matter of fact the BATF agents said that hard copies are for dealer to dealer transfers and they really don't want them in "civilian" hands for the reasons that have come up . We don't need a hard copy for any reason . Just call the BATF and ask them what to do .

 

[dragman]

Thanks for the link to the EZ Check!

As far as who to contact, I still think that the BATF is most likely the best bet. In a particular case, the Chief of Police was contacted, and it seemed that he couldn't do things that crossed state lines. Most of the time when we are buying or selling, it involves someone from another state. The BATF is able to follow through no matter what state is involved, but it takes coordination with the agents in both states. Action is dependent on both having the time and resources available to work the case. I would imagine that it takes quite a bit of evidence gathering and time for them to get to the head of the snake, and the more people involved, the longer it may take. Unfortunately, until then the bad guys may be left to carry on with business as usual.

I would urge anyone with a concern or problem to use the people or agencies that are available to help. That is what we as taxpayers pay them for, so why not? With concerns about what the government does to chip away at some of our rights aside, the BATF is available to help stop criminals that can potentially ruin things for everyone. Going after, or pursuing someone that stole your money in a firearms deal could be very dangerous for you, or even your family. I'm not saying don't do anything, but be smart about what you do, or how far you choose to get involved. Notify the proper people, and if you want to help, then say so. They may need or welcome your involvement. However... criminals can be just as smart about finding things out about you, as you are about them, and that's a scary thought. Think twice about getting any more involved than you already are. Money is replaceable.

Those agencies are 50/50. if you get a good person that is in it for the right reason then it might work for you. at least half the time you get someone who doesn't care and nothing gets done.
I refuse to be intimidated and or scared of criminals and the low life jerk offs that plague the world. they get what they want by using that fear and I am over it. it doesn't matter if it's .38 cents or 50K I will scour the earth for them if they have taken it from me. I understand not everyone is like me in that respect, but leaving it to the authorities just isn't something i am willing to do if they make it clear they aren't going to do anything about it. (which happens often if the deal crosses state lines)