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Butch's Bore Shine

PMA3

PMA3

At last weekends Williamsport shoot, I overheard a discussion on bore solvents, and when Butch's popped up, I listened more intently as that's the one I use. The discussion centered on "OLD vs. NEW" solution performance. My question is this...has the ingredients of the solution changed in the last few years, and if so, does anyone know what ingredients were added and/or deleted and compromised the effectiveness of the product?

Thanks guys.
 
There sure seems to be a real following for Butches Bore shine. I myself haven't been all that impressed. I shoot a lot of bullets down range every month, so that means i do my fair share of barrel cleaning. Butches is not a solid copper removing solvent. Not by a dam sight! I do like the smell, and it does do well on powder fouling, but i dont want to have to use two different solvents. Granted, not all my barrels copper foul. Actually very few of them copper foul, but if they would ever start to copper foul from firecracking or whatever reason, i wouldn't even know it if i still used Butches.
Everyone has there own likes and dislikes, so for me i like to use a solvent that will cover both copper and powder fouling. I find that with Pro Shot #4 among others.
As far as compound changes, i wouldnt know. If they were to change anything, i would like to see a little more copper removing improvements. Just my opinion. Lee
 
I started using Butch's about 3 years ago. I liked the results so when my first large bottle was almost empty I ordered two more. The next bottle I opened had a much stronger ammonia smell to it. My custom guns do not copper foul much so I get very few blue patches. A Savage I have copper fouls big time, and I get lots of blue patches out of it. So my results are different than Lee's and I consider the stuff I have to work pretty good on copper. I too like the smell!
 
I've also had some recent doubts about Butch's, what I've been using now for about 6 years.

Recently it does seem to be less effective on copper removal.

Breaking in a new Krieger barrel, as I speak, & when cleaning on the range, patch's were coming out white after the easy to remove powder fouling was removed. Thought to myself, " This barrel is not copper fouling at all".

Then when I got home, after a total of 20 shots had been fired, since new, borescoped the barrel & saw heavy copper fouling in the grooves, beginning at the throat & continueing for about 5 or 6", then no copper to the muzzle. Soaked the barrel overnight, with the muzzle down and in a white plastic pill bottle. Next morning solvent in the bottle was almost the color of the original Butch's. Dried out the bore, scoped with my Hawkeye & all the copper remained.

Then gave it the JB/ bronze brush treatment & copper is gone completely.

I'm wondering if, as happened to "Shooters Choice", the EPA made Butch's change the formula, making it less effective? Just a thought. May have to consider some other solvent.
 
I use montana copper killer,it used to be 50bmg ,then they chaged the name. It takes copper out fast and it is strong like sweets. Soooooooo that means let it soak for 15 minutes and patch it out and start over if it didnt get it all and then I use brakekleen and blow it out and a light oil after 1 dry patch to make sure I got it all before the oil. As far as hard carbon goes,I use iosso or jb to remove the hard stuff.
 
fdshuster said:
I've also had some recent doubts about Butch's, what I've been using now for about 6 years.

Recently it does seem to be less effective on copper removal.

Breaking in a new Krieger barrel, as I speak, & when cleaning on the range, patch's were coming out white after the easy to remove powder fouling was removed. Thought to myself, " This barrel is not copper fouling at all".

Then when I got home, after a total of 20 shots had been fired, since new, borescoped the barrel & saw heavy copper fouling in the grooves, beginning at the throat & continueing for about 5 or 6", then no copper to the muzzle. Soaked the barrel overnight, with the muzzle down and in a white plastic pill bottle. Next morning solvent in the bottle was almost the color of the original Butch's. Dried out the bore, scoped with my Hawkeye & all the copper remained.

Then gave it the JB/ bronze brush treatment & copper is gone completely.

I'm wondering if, as happened to "Shooters Choice", the EPA made Butch's change the formula, making it less effective? Just a thought. May have to consider some other solvent.
Click to expand...

Frank- I know from your previous posts that you are aware of solvents loosing potency by the way they are used and stored. When I first saw this post, my reaction was that the EPA was involved. Lyman ( Manufacturer of BBS) is a rather large company, and I can certainly see how they may be forced to comply to regulations vs. a small "garage shop" business. Keep us posted on your experiences with BBS.
 
I used BBS before it was sold to Lyman and it was very good but then after it was sold it wasn't effective on copper or carbon. This winter set some outside and it will freeze.......jim
 
For what its worth years ago Shooter's Choice used to dissolve and remove plastic wadding fouling from shotgun forcing cones with little or no effort. Not so anymore. I'm afraid that as a "patent medicine brand bore solvent" becomes more successful in the market it invites scrutiny which demands reformulation. The proof is on the bore patches. If you have doubts 40x or JB bore cleaner (abrasives) will provide confirmation.
 
I called Lyman and asked what they did to BBS as some people were starting to complain about its effectiveness. The answer I got was that about 3 years ago, a "certain chemical" became unavailable and was deleted from the formula....they didn't tell me if anything new was added as a replacement. The new bottles have a bear on the label but my old bottle is too discolored to see the label or compare the ingredients. I also tend to agree with the EPA involvement comments...hope this doesn't spread to ALL solvents.

For one match barrel, I use a combo mix of JB and Sweets and then follow up with BBS. I will replace BBS with TM Solution as my second solvent. On another match barrel, I wanted to get to the "one solvent" approach so I switched over to Bore Tech Eliminator. After 2 years use and a borescope check by my gunsmith, he found copper in the barrel after I just cleaned it. I soaked the barrel overnight in Patch Out + Accelerator and the patches came out a heavy blue....I'm switching back to the above 2 solvent procedure, a little more time involved, but I know the barrel will be clean.
 
From my experience, Butch's will remove the "easy to get" copper fouling from a barrel. Along with the powder fouling also. My regimen as of late has been to chase the powder and easy to get copper with Butch's and then go after the remaining copper with Patch Out! In my opinion, Patch Out is a miracle elixir when it comes to removing copper fouling! It does a pretty good job on carbon too. I have never been impressed with Shooter's Choice. I have a bottle that I purchased over 3 years ago and it is still 2/3 full. I've been through several bottles of Butch's in the same amount of time!

Mike
 
Jim,

I've been looking for warthog for the past week but their website takes you directly to Go Daddy.com with no access to any warthog info.....how are you getting to their site?

Paul
 
Preacher,

I tried the number for North Dakota but it has been disconnected....any other options to reach the warthog people?

Thanks, Paul
 
IF Butches did indeed change their formula since my last order, I am going to give KG-12 a try. In all the tests I have seen it was the best performer at removing copper. Probably should order a couple dozen bronze brushes.....they may not last as long as when using BBS.
 
I am still working on an old bottle (the largest)of Butch's. As a result of this thread, I may buy a smaller one to test, before replacing it. Most of my shooting is with lapped barrels and powders that do not present any special cleaning challenges. If one is looking for alternatives for cleaning at home, it would be hard to go wrong with Wipe Out, or for that matter Patch out. The Accelerator that the same company sells, works with either. I have left Wipe Out in my best barrels overnight, with no problem. A friend who may shoot a lot of rounds between cleanings has found that after removing Wipe Out the last time that it is to be use for that cleaning, that if he dries the barrel and then wets it with Butch's and brushes it a few cycles with a bronze brush, that whatever carbon that remains is easily (wet) patched out. IMO the Wipe Out loosens it but just not enough to come out with patches alone. At the range, I still use Butch's, and if I am not sure that it is getting the job done, after a lot of shooting, I will lightly oil a patch, work a little JB in with my fingers, and short stroke it, paying particular attention to the throat. After that I use wet patches to remove the JB and cleaning residue, and then dry the barrel, including special attention to the chamber.
 
Donovan,

I called the number you posted, spoke with the lady of the house and ordered a bottle of Warthog....thanks for the info. Paul
 
Donovan, I just got in before the site shut down, if you order now you you have to send a check no CC. I am really glad you turned me on to this cleaner it is the best i ever had. Thank you..........Maybe see you at the National?.....jim
 
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