bushing in firing pin hole

[FlinchNJerk]

Hi,
How much should I expect to pay for a gunsmith to put a bushing in the firing pin hole?

 

[Preacher]

Gre-Tan Rifles will do them for about $60.00 last I knew... and only a few days turnaround.
You may want to put one of his firing pin assembly's in it while your at it...
1-970-353-6176

 

[Silverfox]

I can definitely recommend Greg Tannel as the man to bush your firing pin hole on your bolt. I have had him do two of them for me for my .17 Remington rifles. Like the previous poster mentioned, the turn-around time is fantastic and the price is reasonable as well.

 

[rstreich]

Yet another vote for Greg. I have him bush the firing pin on most every production action that I send him.

 

[gamma]

Im picking up more tricks everyday and I taught I knew it all till I got on to you guys.Whats a bushing in a firing pin hole about and does anyone have any diagrames.

 

[Clark]

In 1965 Harold MacFarland wrote on page 30-32 of "Introduction to Gunsmithing"

:
Bushing Large Tip Firing Pins
Many early-day actions such as the Winchester High-Wall single shot, the Sharps-Borchardt, the Cadet Martini, and the model 1892 Winchester are of excellent design, but carry firing pins with large tip diameter. This was satisfactory for use with the low-pressure cartridges, but it isn't with modern high-pressure cartridges. The area of the tip is so great that high pressure can thrust that firing pin back and burst a primer through the hole. In order to convert such actions for use with modern cartridges, we must bush the firing-pin tip to small diameter and close tolerances.
Many methods have been tried, but the simplest and best is that which first drills the firing pin-hole with a #31 wire gauge drill and then taps a 6 by 48 threads in the hole. Drill a 6 by 48 screw lengthwise with a #50 wire gauge drill. This drill is .070 inch in diameter. Ream this hole larger at the tip of the screw, corresponding to the radius of the firing-pin tip. Then using soft solder, tin the screw threads and those in the face of the breech block. Heat the screw and the breech block just enough to melt the solder and turn the screw into place. Finally, face the screw off flush with the outer surface of the breech block. A file will serve to it off if care is used. This bushes the hole to a .070" diameter. Now you only have to grind the firing pin tip down to .068 inch, remembering that this diameter must be flowed into the body diameter with a smooth radius if breakage is to be avoided.

There is a better method of bushing firing pins on single shot actions such as the Winchester High-Wall. It calls for good equipment and considerable experience. On these actions the firing-pin hole is drilled entirely through the block., from the rear, to the full diameter of the body of the pin. In the Winchester this diameter would be .320 inch. Then 3/8 by 24 threads are tapped in the forward end of the hole. That hole is counter bored on the lathe to a diameter of .625 inch and a depth of .090 inch. A matching steel plug, threaded on the 3/8 inch section is forced in tightly. The forward extension is then faced off flush with the face of the breech block, and a new firing pin hole is drilled. Note the illustration.

 

[Rustystud]

Why don't you drill and bore your bolt face to desired hole diameter. Center drill your drill rod stock and turn it to the desired OD. Chamfer the bushing and put it in a freezer. Put your bolt in a 1 ton press and heat the bolt up to about 350 degrees quickly press the bushing into the bolt face. When the temperature of the bolt and plug equal it is there to stay. Face off the bushing, debur, ream, and lap the bushing and your done.

Rustystud

 

[alf]

What methods do Gre-tan and Kampfield use?

Al.

 

[memilanuk]

Nat,

For most people $60 including return shipping is far cheaper than they can get the parts/tools to do the work,drill rod, 1t press, bits, lathe, tooling, etc.) plus GreTan is pretty well known for short,2 day) turnaround on this kind of work. Not saying that it wouldn't be,probably) a simple enough operation if you had the right tools available, but I've had gunsmiths recommend sending it off to GreTan as it was cheaper than they would charge for the shop time/materials to do it in their shop.

Monte

 

[Rustystud]

Monte:

Not trying to argue with you as Greg does great work. Brownells sell bushing kits for the "home Gunsmith".

I have a machine shop, and gunsmithing business. I make up a couple dozen bushings at a time. Brownells sells bushing kits. Center drilling those little screws is a SOB. I bush a few bolts. There is more than one way to skin the cat.

Nat

 

[Clark]

I have never done biz with him, but he looks like the guy:
http://www.gretanrifles.com/index.asp

Bush firing pin hole and turn pin $50.00


Bushing the firing pin hole and turning the firing pin sounds small but this one operation to the bolt has so
many benefits it's hard to believe. The biggie is it has to be done correctly to work as a total benefit. It took two
years to perfect my system to get all the good out of this operation.

What can it do for you? The most noticeable that you can see is for the cratering and or primer piercing
problem for PPC comp rifles, varmint rifles and the high performance 17's, 20's and 6mm's but not limited to
them. The part you can't see that took two years to finally figure out is to make the bushing long enough in side
the bolt to guide and support the firing pin.

Cratering and piercing is not a problem with firing pin fit to hole diameter fit. It has to do with pressure
control. The smaller the hole the more pressure it takes to blank out a washer from the same thickness and
hardness material. So when your 20 Tactical or any other cartridge craters bad and your load is 2 grains light,
the primer round and brass has barely formed the problem is not fixed by a larger firing pin! The correct course
of action is to reduce the firing pin hole diameter.

The reason you want Gre'-Tan Rifles to do the installation is because of the consistency of ignition by my
bushing. This is accomplished because of the longer bushing in the bolt. When you cock and load the firing pin
it stays encapsulated. This guides the firing pin back and forth. It keeps it centered in the bolt helping to prevent
the spring from rubbing on the interior bolt body. The pin doesn't drop down into the large ramp area behind
the firing pin hole in the bolt causing the tip to wear and have different initial vibrations started before the primer
ignites. This all adds up to consistent primer ignition and getting an accurate rifle consistently accurate.

So what size is needed? I always strongly recommend .062 for all comp, varmint, and hunting rifles. For the
guy that has to always take his gun apart in hunting camp it's an .068.

For the person looking for just the repair, all I need is the complete bolt. Turn around time is 2-3 days.

I received a CZ527 in 19 Badger [30 carbine case based wildcat] yesterday, and the firing pin hole is .071".

My 6mmBR built on a 1918 Savage 99 I cannot measure the firing pin hole, but it is making .071" pierces in the primers and .100" craters.

36 gr H335 65 gr Vmax moly will pierce CCI450
35 gr H335 65 gr Vmax moly will not pierce CCI450
35 gr H335 65 gr Vmax moly will pierce WSR
33.5 gr W748 75 gr Vmax moly will not pierce CCI450
33.5 gr W748 75 gr Vmax moly will not pierce WSR
33.5 gr W748 65 gr Vmax moly will not pierce WSR


Dunlap says in his 1950 book on page 155:

Tip diameters are always good for an argument-some intelligent people claiming that they should all be .075" for all center-fire rifles and large caliber handguns and .985" for all shotguns

Dunlap says in his book on page 158:

For the small rifle primer, I believe that tip diameter of .062" is probably best, plus or minus .002" and a protrusion of .050" plus or minus .001", when pins are to be make for single shot rifles rebarreled to on of the high-pressured little cartridges such as the .22 Hornet, .218Bee, or .22/3000 Lovell. When bolt actions are adapted to the small primer cartridges, for best ignition it is wise to bush the firing pin hole and polish the pin down, if over .064" in diameter and the hole is enlarged. If the pin is of that dimension or slightly smaller, and it is a good fit in the face of the bolt, simply shorten it approximately .050" and use as is.

 

[Baily]

Looking down into a factory bolt I see a round black,maybe bushing?) that the firing pin rides in.Looking through the hole in the side of the bolt near the lugs-looks smooth on the inside of the bolt and the hole on the inside is well off center.
Gregg's bolt on the inside looks really well done.Holes in the center but I can see threads looking through the hole near the lugs and there is a black ring on the bolt face-looks like it may have something to do with the whole piece is replaced and screwed in.

 

[vmthtr]

What methods do Gre-tan and Kampfield use?

Al.

Al,
Greg uses a screw in plug, then drills and faces off flush. I have had 2 done by him.

Mike

 

[Clark]

Does Greg bush firing pins on every type of rifle, or just Rem700?

 

[rstreich]

He's done my Sakos and Rems. I know he does others. Just give him a call and ask.

 

[Preacher]

Cat Shooter is totally off base on that last statement

GRE-TAN DOES NOT PUSH HIS BUSHING INTO THE BOLT FACE AND HOLD IT IN WITH RED LOCKTITE--HE CUT THREADS INTO THE BOLT AND SCREWS THEM IN....

Heres Gregs number, call him and find out the truth, I just did to make sure I knew what I was talking about, even though I knew the answer before hand..
We had discussed this when he first started bushing all my 700 & XP bolts a few years ago.
1-970-353-6176

 

[vmthtr]

As I stated above, he drills and taps your bolt, then threads in a plug, then redrills the firing pin hole to .062". Not sure where CS got his info, made it up????????

Mike

 

[Preacher]

Spoke with Greg again and he remembers you asking him to tell you how he does it
If any of you guys have Sako extractors in your bolts that Greg has done, pull it and you can see the threads, you can do the same with a Hawkeye bore scope in the other end after the pin assembly is removed of course....

 

[rstreich]

Catshooter, your post was completely absurd. For one thing, if your bolt head is over 300 degrees you've got much bigger problems to worry about than your firing pin bushing falling out.

Secondly, now I know you're just making things up. Greg wouldn't have told you how he bushes bolts--he considers his method proprietary.

Sometimes you have wonderful, well-reasoned replies. And then, other times, you come up with stuff like this like you're spoiling for an argument. Kind'a disappointing, really.

 

[Clark]

You don't need to get insulting.

The ratio of helpful posters to snotty egotistical posers is like anywhere else on the internet, 1 to 10.

The same thing happens in engineering in industry.

The problem is too much self confidence in human nature.

Any difference in a point of view should be treated with respect, not as an attack.

The trick is to behave graciously when someone else seems wrong. Then when it turns out you were talking about something else, you may learn something, not look like an a$$, and get to the bottom of the differences.

Easier said than done.