Burris Signature Rings Question

[radford56]

I recently acquired a nice used Winchester Model 70 FTW in 7mm Mauser. It included a crappy old Tasco scope with oddly cobbled together bases and rings. I immediately removed those, installed an EGW Pic rail (0 MOA) and mounted a new Leupold VX3 3.5x10 scope in Leupold rings. I did a quick look through the bore boresight and took the rifle to the range where I decided to check the zero at the 25 yard line.

The scope has 52 minutes of windage per the specs and I had to max out the windage to the left to get it zeroed. Obviously not acceptable, so I went home and removed and remounted the scope. Next day at the range I got the same result.

I've seen Burris Signature rings with the +/- inserts recommended as a solution for this type of problem. Without doing any further troubleshooting, like trying a different scope or different set of rings/bases, etc. are the Burris rings a viable solution to this type of misalignment?

 

[BoydAllen]

Absolutely! The one thing that you may want to look out for is that the Signature Zee rings are designed for Weaver bases which are a few thousandths narrower than Picatinny. They way that they are constructed, the bottoms of the rings have a weakening slot to allow for clamping rather than a separate piece. You have two options, swap the base, or go to the more expensive tactical version of the Burris rings.
Once you have the rings in hand, you need to center the scope adjustments, install it with the zero offset inserts and then shoot a test target at a measured distance (50 yards is fine.) to see how far off from where you aimed the bullet strikes, both horizontal and vertical. Assuming you are within normal adjustment range for vertical, you can concentrate on horizontal adjustment using offset inserts turned so that the splits are vertical instead of horizontal. The next thing that you will need is the center to center distance of the rings. Using the horizontal correction desired, center to center distance, and the distance to target, all converted to inches, you can solve for the ring insert offset. I have a Savage 110 that needed .020 offset inserts in both rings, going opposite directions sideways to bring my impact near center with a centered scope. BTW I like to do the final centering of a scope using home made Vs that support the scope tube near the ends of its parallel diameter.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

EGW says their model 70 rail works with both ring types. Only time I had issues with a Burris Signature ring was on a TC Dimension, using the factory 2 piece base. The problem, the rings don't include the different offset, you have to order kit separately. I knew I needed at least the 10 moa. Unless you purchase the xtr signature set that comes with each offset.

 

[BoydAllen]

EGW says their model 70 rail works with both ring types. Only time I had issues with a Burris Signature ring was on a TC Dimension, using the factory 2 piece base. The problem, the rings don't include the different offset, you have to order kit separately. I knew I needed at least the 10 moa. Unless you purchase the xtr signature set that comes with each offset.

Actually, the angle of the offset depends on the ring spacing. The offsets are specified in thousandths of an inch.

 

[AccelR8]

My experience has been the 1" rings do not come with offset inserts, only zero inserts. You order the offsets separately, either in a set or individually. The 30mm rings come with zero and .010 offset rings...if I remember correctly.

I have used really big snap ring pliers to spread the part that slides over the Weaver base ever-so-slightly so they would go over my pic rail.

On the 30mm rings at the recommended torque I had a scope sliding under recoil and adding about 20% more torque finally stopped the slipping but that was scary. Do so with caution! Haven't had this issue with the 1" rings.

Since learning about these rings I haven't used anything else.

 

[3Ackleys]

My experience has been the 1" rings do not come with offset inserts, only zero inserts. You order the offsets separately, either in a set or individually. The 30mm rings come with zero and .010 offset rings...if I remember correctly.

I have used really big snap ring pliers to spread the part that slides over the Weaver base ever-so-slightly so they would go over my pic rail.

On the 30mm rings at the recommended torque I had a scope sliding under recoil and adding about 20% more torque finally stopped the slipping but that was scary. Do so with caution! Haven't had this issue with the 1" rings.

Since learning about these rings I haven't used anything else.

Not true. Here is what all 1", 30mm and 34mm come with:
Each ring set includes one set of the +/- 0 MOA concentric, one set each of the +/-5 MOA and +/-10 MOA, and two sets of the +/-20 MOA. With these inserts, it is possible to make 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 or 40 MOA of cant in the scope mount.

Burris 34mm Xtreme Tactical Signature Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Low

The Burris Xtreme Tactical Signature Rings are designed with the tactical shooter in mind. While delivering ample holding power the Xtreme...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[HTSmith]

With a very little tweaking with a flat blade screwdriver to open the rings just a skosh they'll slip over the EGW rail. I've done it a couple of times.

 

[BoydAllen]

I went back and looked at the Burris tactical literature. It seems that they have intentionally mislabeled their inserts as MOA. I say this because a minute's thought will lead you to the inevitable conclusion that the angle produced will vary with the spacing of the rings, and there is no way for Burris to know that. On the other hand, the Signature Zee rings' inserts continue to be specified as to offset in thousandths of an inch. I suggest that if you want to do some actual calculating for the tactical inserts that you actually measure the difference between each half of an offset pair.

 

[AccelR8]

Not true. Here is what all 1", 30mm and 34mm come with:
Each ring set includes one set of the +/- 0 MOA concentric, one set each of the +/-5 MOA and +/-10 MOA, and two sets of the +/-20 MOA. With these inserts, it is possible to make 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 or 40 MOA of cant in the scope mount.

Burris 34mm Xtreme Tactical Signature Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Low

The Burris Xtreme Tactical Signature Rings are designed with the tactical shooter in mind. While delivering ample holding power the Xtreme...

www.midwayusa.com

Looking at the MidwayUSA listings for the Xtreme Tactical Signature rings, I see that what you said is true. However the rings I have used are the Signature Zee rings and what I remembered about them was in fact correct. 1 inch rings, zero offsets inserts included, order others separately. 30mm, zero and ten thou. offsets included.

Sure is nice that Burris makes all this easy and consistent across the line

 

[radford56]

Thanks for all the replies - I'll be ordering a set this weekend.

 

[newbieshooter]

I went back and looked at the Burris tactical literature. It seems that they have intentionally mislabeled their inserts as MOA. I say this because a minute's thought will lead you to the inevitable conclusion that the angle produced will vary with the spacing of the rings, and there is no way for Burris to know that. ......

.....Burris states that the effective cant is dependent on the spacing between the two rings....

 

[BoydAllen]

They are being silly. By their own chart their "5 MOA" inserts are only that at one ring spacing. Their quandary is that most of those who buy the rings do not know how to do the calculation required to figure the effect on target of a given amount of offset. It really isn't that hard to do. Where it gets a little more interesting is when you want to do both horizontal and vertical correction.

 

[hoz53]

They are being silly. By their own chart their "5 MOA" inserts are only that at one ring spacing. Their quandary is that most of those who buy the rings do not know how to do the calculation required to figure the effect on target of a given amount of offset. It really isn't that hard to do. Where it gets a little more interesting is when you want to do both horizontal and vertical correction.

i can do the calculation, but on the signature z rings i use, getting the insert at just the right spot and the ring tightened down while also getting the reticle aligned how i want it is the tricky part for me. involves some fit and try for me, but they work. as an aside, Burris would not sell me the inserts for 30mm rings like they do for 1". they wouldnt tell me why either.

 

[BoydAllen]

How much do you want to raise or lower the scope in one ring? The reason that I ask is that with the tactical rings there may be other options, given that they have a separate clamping piece.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

All good, but wouldn't the older one piece windage adjustable base be a better and cheaper option?

 

[Ackman]

Those Signature rings are the best thing going, I've used them since they first came out. My guns have the Zee (weaver/picatinny) style almost exclusively. I've frequently used the offsets for elevation and occasionally for windage, even up to .020". They work exactly as they're supposed to.

 

[KY_Windage]

Yes, I got tired of running into the problem you did and now I automatically get a set of Burris Signature rings for every rifle I shoot. If you got the Sig. Weavers in 30mm they come with only 10 moa inserts. However, 10 in the front and 10 in the back will give you a total of ABOUT 20 moa, which should be enough to solve your problem. For BR rifles I use the XTR Sig's, which allows me to put as much as 20 in the front and 20 in the back.

Do check the tightness of the ring screws every so often, especially right after installation, as they tend to work loose with shooting at first. Not a big deal, just keep after them and they will eventually stay tight.

 

[JohnKielly]

With a very little tweaking with a flat blade screwdriver to open the rings just a skosh they'll slip over the EGW rail. I've done it a couple of times.

... but if they're for 30 mm rings, you could find the buggers break at the slot like mine did. In the height I selected, the slot enters the curve of the insert channel. To be fair, Burris replaced them, but I chose higher rings without the slot cut issue.

 

[johara1]

The first thing I would do is see if you have any forend pressure on the barrel from the stock...... Burris signature rings in 1" have multiple sets of inserts 30mm have .010.. The new ones are very bulky compared to the old ones..... I would bed the base it maybe your problem too...... jim

 

[KY_Windage]

... but if they're for 30 mm rings, you could find the buggers break at the slot like mine did. In the height I selected, the slot enters the curve of the insert channel. To be fair, Burris replaced them, but I chose higher rings without the slot cut issue.

I have so far avoided breakage by not trying to open the legs up enough to slip over the pic. rail (after spring-back). I instead tap a small screwdriver into the slot just enough to where the legs will barely slip over the rail with the screwdriver in place. Once on, I remove the screwdriver.