I am using a Wilson/Sinclair inline seating die for 300 PRC with Hornady A-tip bullets. Unsurprisingly, the standard seating stem had issues with these absurdly long bullets: it would leave ring marks unless the neck tension was nearly nil, and would have to be backed out until it was sticking above the top of the die. I got a VLD stem, and now there are no marks on the bullets. Great. But, I can’t remove loaded rounds from the die without prying them out with a screwdriver. What can I do?
Bullets sticking in VLD stem
- Thread starter Kratos
- Start date
Some have had luck with depositing REDDING case lube in the stem cavity. Others have buffed the interior of the cavity with a very low abrasive sandpaper or polishing material. 0000 steel wool has worked for some as well.
You can chuck one of those bullets in a drill press and put a little light abrasive compound on it (like iosso bore cleaner) and polish the inside of the stem making sure to keep the stem as square to the bullet as possible.
Is the VLD seating stem preventing case extraction from the die?
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Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
If your standard seating stem left a ring on the bullet nose, chances are good the cavity was already sufficiently long for the Hornady A-tips. The problem with using a standard seating stem with VLD bullets is typically that if the bullet meplat actually "bottoms out" in the cavity, meaning the stem is actually seating the bullet by pushing it in from the nose, then the nose of the VLD bullet is simply too long for the cavity in that particular seating die stem. For that reason, the cavity in VLD seater stems is typically much deeper. However, the bevel inside the mouth of the stem may also be ground at a steeper angle more suitable for contacting the ogive of VLD (secant ogive) bullets. Using a standard seating die stem with a VLD bullet that has too long of a nose will generally not leave a concentric ring around the bullet nose, as the bullet meplat "bottoms out" in the stem cavity and actually prevents the bullet ogive from ever appropriately contacting the beveled surface inside the mouth of the stem.
If you haven't already done so, you can easily check your standard seating die stem to determine if the cavity is deep enough for the A-tip bullets using a toothpick (or similar). Push an A-tip bullet as far into the stem as you can, then mark a ring around the ogive with a sharpie. Repeat that process with a toothpick that can be pushed all the way to the bottom of the seater stem cavity. Then compare the lengths of the bullet meplat to the mark, and the toothpick tip to the mark to determine whether the nose is too long. If not, you may just need to use a little steel wool to smooth out the inside of the standard stem that was originally causing the ring around the bullet ogive. I mention this solely because it sounds as though you didn't have the problem with the bullets sticking when you were using the standard stem. As I described above, the ring caused around the meplat does not necessarily mean the meplat of the A-tip was "bottoming out" in the standard seater stem cavity.
There may be a different reason that your A-tips are becoming "stuck" in the VLD seater stem. If the beveled mouth and interior of the VLD stem are a very good fit for the nose of the A-tips, it may be that they are generating a vacuum behind the bullet nose when pushed into the stem, i.e. forcing out some air, forming a tight seal, and then becoming stuck. You might try chucking up both stems in a drill, and running them over a small piece of steel wool you have compressed to fit tightly into their respective cavities. In the case of the VLD stem, this might scuff up the inner bevel to prevent a vacuum from forming. In the case of the original standard stem, it can smooth out the bevel sufficiently that it won't cause a ring around the bullet nose.
Finally, doesn't Hornady recommend using a special seating die stem for their A-tip bullets? I understand those may not work with your Wilson die, but there's probably a good reason Hornady made that recommendation. It might also be worth giving them a call to see if they have any other suggestions worth trying in your specific situation.
If you haven't already done so, you can easily check your standard seating die stem to determine if the cavity is deep enough for the A-tip bullets using a toothpick (or similar). Push an A-tip bullet as far into the stem as you can, then mark a ring around the ogive with a sharpie. Repeat that process with a toothpick that can be pushed all the way to the bottom of the seater stem cavity. Then compare the lengths of the bullet meplat to the mark, and the toothpick tip to the mark to determine whether the nose is too long. If not, you may just need to use a little steel wool to smooth out the inside of the standard stem that was originally causing the ring around the bullet ogive. I mention this solely because it sounds as though you didn't have the problem with the bullets sticking when you were using the standard stem. As I described above, the ring caused around the meplat does not necessarily mean the meplat of the A-tip was "bottoming out" in the standard seater stem cavity.
There may be a different reason that your A-tips are becoming "stuck" in the VLD seater stem. If the beveled mouth and interior of the VLD stem are a very good fit for the nose of the A-tips, it may be that they are generating a vacuum behind the bullet nose when pushed into the stem, i.e. forcing out some air, forming a tight seal, and then becoming stuck. You might try chucking up both stems in a drill, and running them over a small piece of steel wool you have compressed to fit tightly into their respective cavities. In the case of the VLD stem, this might scuff up the inner bevel to prevent a vacuum from forming. In the case of the original standard stem, it can smooth out the bevel sufficiently that it won't cause a ring around the bullet nose.
Finally, doesn't Hornady recommend using a special seating die stem for their A-tip bullets? I understand those may not work with your Wilson die, but there's probably a good reason Hornady made that recommendation. It might also be worth giving them a call to see if they have any other suggestions worth trying in your specific situation.
Yes.
I thank everyone for the input, and in particular @Ned Ludd mentions a possibility that I also had wondered about, specifically that the fit may be too good. I will investigate all this when I get back home. As far as the specific A tip stem, I believe that only works with Hornady dies, and I’ve had no issues with VLD stems on other dies.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Agree with the polishing recommendations.
I have drilled out a stem on a Redding die and bedded it to the 250gr Berger bullets I am using in my 338-375R. I made sure I had a dummy round with as close to zero bullet runout as possible but a longer than normal seating depth. Then drilled the stem wider than bullet diameter. Deburred and sanded sharp edges and inside surface of the stem. Applied release agent to the bullet on the loaded dummy round and inside of the seater stem shaft/housing. Put bedding into the stem (but not too much as to avoid too much overflow). Carefully and slowly inserted the round to the die using the press like I normally would and let it cure with the weight of the handle bearing down on it. Once cured the bedding pulled the bullet out of the case neck but after removing the stem, a light tap broke it free. Drilled out the center of the bedding so bullet tip was not making contact with anything and trimmed up the bedding.
Next I tested 16 rounds for seating depth consistency and runout. The resulting measurements with the bedded stem are shown below. Greatest spread with seating depth measure at the base of the ogive was .001”(not counting the one bullet with a questionable ogive that I reseated 3 times with the same result of 2.8915”). Greatest runout on bullet bearing surface was also .001”. Very happy with the results.
I have drilled out a stem on a Redding die and bedded it to the 250gr Berger bullets I am using in my 338-375R. I made sure I had a dummy round with as close to zero bullet runout as possible but a longer than normal seating depth. Then drilled the stem wider than bullet diameter. Deburred and sanded sharp edges and inside surface of the stem. Applied release agent to the bullet on the loaded dummy round and inside of the seater stem shaft/housing. Put bedding into the stem (but not too much as to avoid too much overflow). Carefully and slowly inserted the round to the die using the press like I normally would and let it cure with the weight of the handle bearing down on it. Once cured the bedding pulled the bullet out of the case neck but after removing the stem, a light tap broke it free. Drilled out the center of the bedding so bullet tip was not making contact with anything and trimmed up the bedding.
Next I tested 16 rounds for seating depth consistency and runout. The resulting measurements with the bedded stem are shown below. Greatest spread with seating depth measure at the base of the ogive was .001”(not counting the one bullet with a questionable ogive that I reseated 3 times with the same result of 2.8915”). Greatest runout on bullet bearing surface was also .001”. Very happy with the results.
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I'm having the same issue. it started with the forster mic seating die where it would make a click sound when I lowered the die, that was the seater stem letting go of the bullet, the die has the vld stem. I switched to the wilson mic seater with the arbor press and vld stem, they were tight to remove, grasped the die body with my hand and popped the seater with my thumb, no marks on the bullet. I found that using once fired cases, annealing and then sizing with a mandrel with about 1.5 thou tension things felt a bit better, still tight but no where near when I used virgin brass. The hornady brass seems to be a bit of hard work to prep, really tight primer pockets and the necks seem more on the thicker side. The end result with the
A- tips was good groups and low sd's so I dont think that the sticking problem will effect accuracy, more than just a bother in the seating process. These A-tips are very long and slender and hornady does advise that you use their special seating stem but you can only use it in their dies.
A- tips was good groups and low sd's so I dont think that the sticking problem will effect accuracy, more than just a bother in the seating process. These A-tips are very long and slender and hornady does advise that you use their special seating stem but you can only use it in their dies.
Sounds like you solved your seating stem problem with the VLD seating stem. The seating stem is not causing the case to want to stay in the die. Those dies are snug and have a kind of vacuum lock on the case especially when new. I usually can pull them out with my fingernail. Pulling the seater stem out of the top of the die might break the vacuum.
Does a sized case slide into the die easily and fall right out? If there is no resistance with a case it could be when you seat a bullet and the neck expands it is binding in the die. I find with use they loosen up.
Might try cleaning the die well. They ship them with a protective coating. That might be why the case is sticking. I always clean mine well to remove it.
Does a sized case slide into the die easily and fall right out? If there is no resistance with a case it could be when you seat a bullet and the neck expands it is binding in the die. I find with use they loosen up.
Might try cleaning the die well. They ship them with a protective coating. That might be why the case is sticking. I always clean mine well to remove it.
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I thought you said this?
. I got a VLD stem, and now there are no marks on the bullets.
Can you pull the seater stem out of the die after seating a bullet?
Have you cleaned the inside of the die with solvent?
Will a sized case slide in and out without resistance?
. I got a VLD stem, and now there are no marks on the bullets.
Can you pull the seater stem out of the die after seating a bullet?
Have you cleaned the inside of the die with solvent?
Will a sized case slide in and out without resistance?
I have problems getting cases out of my 300prc wilson seater with vld stem too mine is vapor lock tho I just pull the stem out and tap the die and they usually come out.
I appreciate the comments. It really seems to be a fundamental incompatibility between the A tips and these dies. It’s happened with the 190 grain bullets in 7 SAUM too. Cleaning didn’t help. Valve compound didn’t help. Switching to VLD stems reduced the ring but then the sticking was worse.
I called Wilson and they said if I send some bullets and the dies they will modify the stems to fit better.
I called Wilson and they said if I send some bullets and the dies they will modify the stems to fit better.
It seems like a good thought, I do use a 21st Century mandrel that is 0.001" less than the bullet diameter and the problem persists. I ordered one for 300 PRC that is only 0.0005" under, but haven't had a chance to try it. Perhaps the neck tension would be lower if the necks were turned, but on the other hand I've used the same brass and bullets with various conventional seating dies and not had this problem.
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