Is the potential for bullet weld something considered for pistol and rifle or really just rifle? I would presume both. Also, to remedy, is the application of neolube done at every loading (i presume so) or is there residual material that lasts between loadings?
Bullet weld and pressure relationship
- Thread starter 6Creed73
- Start date
Neo lube would need to be done every loading, it doesn't take much and is a quick process with a q-tip. Even without thinking of bullet weld, I use neo lube anyway because it does does a great job with consistent bullet seating as well is mandrel use.
Neo lube is resilient enough that it's all still there after using the mandrel so no need to reapply for bullet seating. But it all goes away after tumbling the brass.
My "Old School, Fix",. Fire case to, fit chamber, Nylon Brush Neck, 2-3 strokes to, Clean off, some of the Carbon, a little bit ( Leaves some, Residue ) then Lube cases with, Hornady, Unique Lube,.. again, Nylon Brushed 3-4 strokes in neck then, Dry with, a Q-Tip.
Load, wait 10 years,.. Fire with, NO,.. problems !
Been doing it this way, since, the 1960's
Load, wait 10 years,.. Fire with, NO,.. problems !
Been doing it this way, since, the 1960's
Last edited:
If one of our viewers was a scanning electron microscope operator they could analyse the black deposit for us. It's time someone got an explanation for this condition. There are better analysis techniques but SEM would point in the right direction. I read articles about the amount of residual acid remaining in nitro cellulose after it's made. There is a spec for max remaining acid but I doubt they would toss a large batch. They just sell it to us. I wonder if welding occurs from high acid levels in the powder or remaining solvents.
That (the asphalt sealant) was my immediate thought as to why long-storage military ammo never suffers this condition.
I read somewhere 1.5 Million rounds of AR per kill. Most shots are not aimed, your spraying an area to suppres return fire.
Can't quite get behind this bullet weld thing being a real problem. Lets say it adds even an extra 100lbs of force to move the bullet. Sounds huge to me but it's only .0016% of 60,000psi.
46and2
Silver $$ Contributor
We dont know if its 100 lb or 600lb, or inconsistently any amount in between from one round to the next.
From an accuracy perspective, if it affects barrel time and barrel harmonics we have problems.
Actually, I think 100lbs would be on the high side but either way, it's tiny as a percentage and ime, inconsequential on the target. So, is the question, does it matter, or is it, what do we do about it. Just ime, the answer is the same...nothing, because I don't see it on the target. IOW, it's not a problem, to me. Ymmv
I don't think it's dangerous in anyway, but inconsequential? Not sure. But If it is inconsequential, then so is neck tension. People go to great lengths to get consistent neck tension...if a bullet weld doesn't show up on the target, then varying neck tension certainly doesn't.
Fwiw, I typically use a pretty firm jam and I seldom see much difference with neck tension.
Completely agree!! Also, perhaps the long range guys wont mind crimping either.
Man I find this hard to believe. I wonder if something else was to blame. If this was truly a serious concern, shooting ammo that was 40-50 years old would be a very dangerous proposition, and I know many guys, myself included, that have shot very old ammo without any issues whatsoever.
Dave
It comes down to how the ammo was stored and even how it was loaded and the conditions it was loaded in I think more than anything else.
Attached are a couple of pictures on a similar subject... the powder did this and the ammo was only loaded like a month or two before F class Champs a couple of years ago by a friend of mine. I'm not naming the powder/manufacturer. The maker did replace a couple jugs of the powder but not everything that he had thrown out from that lot. He went to the champs.. and the gun would throw rounds when it shouldn't have. This was from the fall of 2018. He ended up pulling like 400 rounds. While pulling the bullets he also noted there was more force necessary to pull them then what normally you would've needed to do.
I sent some of the bullets off to either Picatinny Arsenal as they have a guy there and his only job is researching and working with powder. None of them had every seen anything like it before and couldn't explain it.
I've shot old ammo with no issues and I've also received pressure data on old ammo where the pressure was beyond the working limits rated for the rounds due to the powder/priming compounds break down overtime. This is especially true of corrosive powder and primers. The cases where actually corroding from the inside out.
So believe what you want but things like this happen and sometimes we cannot come up with a solid explanation.
Attachments
A friend recently blew up his S&W 38 airweight shooting 20 yr old std vel box ammo. So there is your answer!
Jack neary said if he isn't shooting the ammo that day he uses graphite in the neck to prevent the weld, so thats what I do. I wet tumble no pins and use graphite. A champion shooter sure as heck knows more than me....
Ive read this thread and thought it would be a good thing to test. Remembered I had some old loads for my 308 so put one together …just need a range day to get it done. I have 25 rounds I loaded in 2017 with varget and Berger 168s. At the time I loaded these I was using ss pins to clean all my brass and didn’t use any lube in the necks. I used a body die and a Lee collet die for sizing then. I took five rounds and pulled the bullets and weight the charge in each. I used a Parker tuned balance back then and was curious how it matched to my current A&D FX 120. All were with in .04g of the 43g target. I recharged these 5 and reseated and will use them as sighters. I took 10 and seated them deeper to break the weld if there was one then carefully used a collet puller to lengthen them so I could reseat to my target cbto. These were loaded with a slight jam so I didn’t want these 10 seated deeper and affect pressure. So I have 10 rounds that haven’t been touched and 10 were the weld was broken. I’ll shoot them round robin and record velocity and see what happens. I will say when I seated the 10 deeper initially I did not feel much resistance or a pop of any kind so I’m not sure they were welded at all but we shall see if the garmin can pick up any difference in them. If anyone has anything they would like to add that would make this little test more accurate please let me know.
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
If your 10 samples that were seated deeper didn't seriously pop when you pushed them, then you will probably not see anything significant.
When you find a batch that has the problem, you will know it.
A test of a batch that has the problem will tell you something, a test of a batch that doesn't have the problem, doesn't tell us anything about the ones that do.
Not trying to talk you out of your plans, but unless you found some with the problem you can't conclude anything other than that you didn't find any.... and that is a good thing for you.
For those using neolube. At which point do you lube the necks? I presume it is after powder drop just before bullet seating?
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.