Bullet Sorting Tool

[TimP]

I am thinking about purchasing Sinclair's bullet sorting stand. I have been sorting my bullets with my dial caliper and comparator. I watched Sinclair's bullet sorting tool video and it appears you can achieve more consistent readings as well as speeding things up a little. Sinclair offers their tool with a single point or flat 11mm indicator tip and I believe I read somewhere the pointed tip is preferred. I would like to hear from someone who has experience with this tool and their opinions. Also who else makes a bullet sorting tool that would be worth looking into.

Thanks in advance for your help, Tim

 

[bozo699]

TimP,
Give 40XGuy a p.m, he tried almost every bullet sorting tool before finding the buhay sorting tool sold by mark king rifles, I bought one and would not be without it, it is the best I have used for sure, Mark King is first class also.
Look for the JB Bullet Ogive Comparator w/ Stand.
Wayne.

http://www.markkingrifles.com/pages/pricing.php

 

[Flybuster]

I would like a bullet stand that sorts by bearing surface, rather than base to ogive. Is there such a beast?

 

[jlow]

I am actually in the same boat as the OP and would like to hear more about this. First, my understanding of the reason for sorting bullets is that you want to sort them by their bearing surface lengths, this would be the part that contact the rifling, the idea that if a bullet has differences there, it is going to encounter different degrees of friction and therefore affecting the pressure build up and therefore MV.

I am torn looking at the ones that use the Melpat since that by definition is the curve area of the bullet and so not part of the bearing surface and so using it only infers that differences there means the same thing is happening in the bearing surface which I am not sure is correct.

The idea of using melplat at one end and the boat tail end at the other is an even greater degree of extrapolation. Having said so, one thing that does make sense doing the latter is that sorting bullet by that method might give you more consistent seating depth which we all know affect pressure and MV, so I don’t know and need to be educated further. Hope I am making sense?

 

[bheadboy]

you may be looking for a"bullet spinner" a tool in use for a long time as early as '68-70 mostly made by Hart. but others were in the business.
The way mine works, there is a C shaped aluminum frame that is made of 1"x2' barstock, - a flat bottom a verticle bar and a flat top mated together solidly.

then the top and bottome are bored 3/4" lining up perfectly, then you have two 3/4"dia rods each about 3 " long tapered to meet in the center of the C -- the top rod is counter sunk to allow the point of the bullet to enter, and the bottom rod is counter sunk to allow the base to sit in

a .0001" dia indicator is mounted reaching out from the verticle bar with the reading needle resting on the side of the bullet, the result is you can read the dia in .0001" to see the runout at any point on the bearing surface, as well as check dia. of lot to lot.

Ted Boughton of Rochester, ny made mine.

bob

 

[ridgeway]

The Mark King unit will sort by bearing surface when using his comparator bodies.

 

[jlow]

My problem with the Mark King unit is that their site gives no description of the instrument. I know bozo699 loves it but I am not quite sure why – would like to hear more details.

As for who makes one, I am pretty sure that David Tubb makes one which has been reviewed at 6mmBR.com, it is this one that I am thinking of buying but would like to hear more from folks as to what they think of it.

The bullet spinner that bheadboy (Love that name BTW since that is what they used to called me when I was a kid – LOL) is actually a roundout measuring tool, useful but measuring something else more like Hornady concentricity tool.

To recount, what I was hoping to measure is not runout but the length of the bearing surface.

 

[Flybuster]

The Mark King unit will sort by bearing surface when using his comparator bodies.

Just found your post by searching:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3778632.msg36027465.html#msg36027465

So the part that comes down from the micrometer measures which end of the bullet?

 

[ridgeway]

Flybuster...there is another die that is not pictured. The die(comparator) is caliber specific and I insert the tip of the bullet first and slide it under the dial. The insert in the dial slides over the base of the bullet. It indexes on or near the heel of the bullet. I'll snap a pic with my phone and post later.

 

[ridgeway]

Hope this helps...

 

[jlow]

Thanks ridgeway! So as far as I can see, both the Mark King and the David Tubb setup is almost identical. So anyone has any thoughts as to which one works better or is it a toss up? The Tubb setup appears to now only include the two comparator without the base or the dial caliper/holder. The King appears to be a set with all the parts, am I missing something else?

Would also like to get some ideas from people who have used these devices on things like the 175 SMK, have you really found significant deviations or groups of differences?

The one thing I realize is that trying to get the comparator to stop right at where the bearing surface starts is a really tall order because if the diameter of the bullet in that area deviates even a little bit, it will show up as a different length even though it is actually its diameter that is off, of course that too has consequences…. Any thoughts on this?

Sorry for all the questions but I have been mulling over this for quite a few days for no answers and so this was a perfect opportunity to get some answers.

 

[Flybuster]

Thanks Chuck (Ridgeway), for the great pictures and explanation. This looks like the solution to the two caliper attachment system I've been using. The problem I had was getting the same reading because the amount of pressure placed on the bullet varied, giving inconsistent readings. This system you have takes more human error out.

 

[lmorrison17]

I like this one.

http://greensrifles.com/New_Products.html

For the main reason stated on the site.
The second reason is that I have found differing bearing surface length not to make a difference.
I had 2 lots of Berger 6.5 130gr VLD's There was a difference of .040" in the length of the bearing surface. What amazed me was that they preferred the same load and relationship to the lands and here's the kicker THEY GROUPED TOGETHER AT 600YDS!

I am of the opinion that consistent seating depth (relationship to the lands) is more important.
Larry

 

[Flybuster]

The bullet comparator sold on Mark King's page for 140.00; does that come with the dial indicator?

 

[ridgeway]

I think it does. I'd call first before you order. I believe it comes with a comparator of choice. I won mine at a shoot and it came with the base, dial, 6mm and 30 Cal comparators.

 

[jlow]

So what I have been reading here summarize my deliemma.

The idea of bullet bearing surface length seems reasonable but I am not sure how well one can measure it and how much difference it makes?

Bullet weight variation also sounds reasonable but again is it going to make a difference?

Bullet length based on ogive and base makes a difference in terms of seating depth – that I know from experience makes a difference but I have measured 175 SKM using the Hornady OAL tool but only with the bullet but I don’t see huge differences.

From reading the greensrifles article that Imorrison17 posted, the user did find differences but they were small with a total range of about 1.5 thousands which is consistent with what I see but I think I am going to need a better measuring instrument since my calipers only measures down to 0.5 thousands. Then there is still the question of whether one can see 0.1 thousands consistently with the calipers - with a good micrometer yes, but calipers doubtful.

 

[4xforfun]

The ones posted above look EXACTLY like my Schehane tool. I have been trying to post pics I took last night......they won't load. But it is a moot point...looks just like the above posted pictures.

Ps...sorted 1500 Berger 108BT's last night. Took a couple of hours. These have been the most consitant bullets I have ever sorted. I ended up with 3 piles o bullets.... -001= 31%, .000 = 62%, and group 3 +.001 = 7%. 1500 bullets, not one bullet"out of speck". Spread of only + or - .001.

Awsome!!

 

[bozo699]

4Xforfun,
I had about the same experience with the 105 Hybrids I measured on mu Buhay (Mark King)
sorter the other day.

I disagree with the statements that the Tubbs, ShaHane, and the John Buhay sorting tools measure bearing surface, they in fact do not they are comparitors, if they in fact measured bearing surface it would read something like .405 or so for a 105 vld, these tools do not do that they give you a bearing surface varience only!

With that being said YES Mark King sends the Buhay complete with indicator, his setup for holding the indicator is a little different then the Tubbs or ShaHane and His comparitor tools may be built a little different, I don't know for sure, I know to ship the Buhay from Mark Kings shop in Pennsylvania to my place in S.E Washington state with a 6mm insert was $165 to my door, and a Great guy to deal with, Bill ShaHane, and Bob Green are also great to deal with, I don't know about Tubbs but I imagine he is,...he's a shooter isn't he?? I hope this has answered some questions and helped some.
Wayne.

 

[4xforfun]

4Xforfun,
I had about the same experience with the 105 Hybrids I measured on mu Buhay (Mark King)
sorter the other day.

I disagree with the statements that the Tubbs, ShaHane, and the John Buhay sorting tools measure bearing surface, they in fact do not they are comparitors, if they in fact measured bearing surface it would read something like .405 or so for a 105 vld, these tools do not do that they give you a bearing surface varience only!

With that being said YES Mark King sends the Buhay complete with indicator, his setup for holding the indicator is a little different then the Tubbs or ShaHane and His comparitor tools may be built a little different, I don't know for sure, I know to ship the Buhay from Mark Kings shop in Pennsylvania to my place in S.E Washington state with a 6mm insert was $165 to my door, and a Great guy to deal with, Bill ShaHane, and Bob Green are also great to deal with, I don't know about Tubbs but I imagine he is,...he's a shooter isn't he?? I hope this has answered some questions and helped some.
Wayne.

Actually , you could measure ACTUAL bearing serface length...just set up the dial indicator to read "ZERO" when the top "die"is on top of the bottom "die" without a bullet and the measurment you would get with a bullet would be the actual bearing serface.

But, Why would you? The actual number is meaningless...it's the variance that I am concerned with.

I wish I could post a picture of my Shehane tool. It looks like Mark Kings' twin sister. I guess form follows function!!

Also, I spent more than $160.....but I got the dies for 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and .308.

 

[bozo699]

4xforfun,
I have not posted to many pictures but if you email the pic I would be glad to try to put it on the forum, I have seen them and looked very similar to me but not exact but that was a while back and I could be wrong it might be exact, They also say Tubb's is the same.

I thought they would and should be able to measure true bearing surface but for the life of me I cannot get a dial or digital to read true reading of the actual bearing surface, I have rotated bullet in the tool to etch a mark on the bullet and measured with a caliper so I know pretty close what the measurement is but it never says that with the indicator, oh it will give you a number but not the right number?? Please try to measure your bearing surface with your calipers then zero your dial indicator and stick the bullet in the tool, if it measures the same, I will eat your hat or buy your indicator if it's for sale Thanks.
Wayne.

waynebezona@cpcinternet.com