Sorting before bullet pointing

[Goodcat]

I’ve been reading for several months on bullet tipping. I’ve previously been sorting base to o-give and wanted to give pointing a try. Watched everything I could find from F-class John, Cortina, and Keith Glasscock. Still not entirely sure of the best way to sort pre-pointing. I’m running straight 284 w 180gr hybrids. I’ve played with bullet OAL, and just don’t see consistent OAL result because of the ragged meplat. Trim, then OAL sort, then point?

If Litz states that base to o-give is the best way to sort, but you need to sort OAL to tip, is a uniform tipped bullet better than a b2o sort? Or perhaps I’m missing a pre-sorting sorting step.

I do fully understand the pointing process, and what you can screw up by over pointing, but can’t wrap my head around pre-point sorting.

Perhaps no sorting except the Bob Green comparator before tipping and good to go, because it’s a consistent o-give to bullet seater measurement, thereby creating consistent seating depth?

School me please.

 

[DocBII]

Goodcat,

Sort by OGL first. Trim, more than once if needed to be able to get the bullets into +/-0.0025 groups with nice meplats. Then point. You should get bullets within the pointed groups with an OAL of +/- 0.003 or better. If you really have OCD, trim the bullets again after pointing. I haven't found much, if any, benefit to a second trimming.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[Chaotik]

Ragged meplats is a problem and I don't know any way of dealing with this without trimming, which I don't do, or using custom bullets.

So here is what works for me: I sort using a BGC, then sort by OAL, then point. YMMV.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I’ve been reading for several months on bullet tipping. I’ve previously been sorting base to o-give and wanted to give pointing a try. Watched everything I could find from F-class John, Cortina, and Keith Glasscock. Still not entirely sure of the best way to sort pre-pointing. I’m running straight 284 w 180gr hybrids. I’ve played with bullet OAL, and just don’t see consistent OAL result because of the ragged meplat. Trim, then OAL sort, then point?

If Litz states that base to o-give is the best way to sort, but you need to sort OAL to tip, is a uniform tipped bullet better than a b2o sort? Or perhaps I’m missing a pre-sorting sorting step.

I do fully understand the pointing process, and what you can screw up by over pointing, but can’t wrap my head around pre-point sorting.

Perhaps no sorting except the Bob Green comparator before tipping and good to go, because it’s a consistent o-give to bullet seater measurement, thereby creating consistent seating depth?

School me please.

I was going to create a thread until i found this one. you are asking the very same questions i have.

After watching a number of youtube videos from the likes of F-Class John, is seems like they are starting out their BTO sorting process with hundreds of bullets at one time. their sorting process creates larger groups of of bullets that makes it worthwhile to further sort based on the bullet OAL, then trim and point.

I was in the habbit of sorting primers and sorting bullets based on weight. If I sort based on BTO, then i would not go back and sort by weight.... or sort by weight first, then sort by BTO, then sort by bullet OAL, then trim and finally point.

however, for those of us who dont shoot enough to be managing 500-1000 bullets at a time (e.g. 100-200), we might not have sufficient numbers for the sort sort sort trim point process to produce sufficient output to be worth while. I guess that if i were to take the approach of just getting groups of 20, that might work.

A fellow F-Class shooter said that he was considering pointing and that it wasnt very expensive to get into. After doing some research i realized that once you purchased all the different pieces to do just one bullet (not one caliber... but just ONE BULLET), you have easily invested $500-$600. Then if you add another caliber, add on another $250 and then if you add another bullet type to the mix, be prepared to tack on another $150. To be able to trim and point three calibers with one bullet type each, you are looking at a minimum of appx $1,200.

Is it really worth it in the end?

 

[rwj]

Is it really worth it in the end?

IMHO… your will realize more improvement by spending the money on bullets, primers, and powder to create more range time. I bought the trimming/pointing equipment and noticed very little improvement at distances up to 300 yards. I’ve been told the BC increase and uniformity becomes noticeable at longer distances…

 

[DocBII]

Gunny,

I only weigh 20-50 bullets out of a lot to verify the weight before any sorting. I've had some lots from all major makers where about 1 in 10 to 1 in 20 were off by 5% or more in weight, leading to unexplained high or low shots. Really sucks to discover this during and after a match.

I think I've spent at most $500 on Whiddens pointing system for the system, .338, .308, 6.5, 243, and .223 pointing sleeves, and pointers. It works with every bullet I thrown at the system, and I've done thousands. Not necessarily worth doing for a 1 MOA reduction in drop at distance, but it usually helped shrink group size as well. You can always just buy tipped bullets and just sort by OGL.

Even if you don't shoot a lot, buying components in large lots allows sorting, which usually (but not always) improves group sizes. If you don't wish to buy large lots, spend the upfront cash on quality or custom components and don't worry about sorting.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[GunnyUSMC]

My daughter and I are into long range. We are both shooting F-Class TR (.223 & .308) and ELR (.338 Edge in light class). Minimum range for us is 600yds and we shoot out to 2000 yds.

I typically do not buy large lots but if I am going to make pointing a practical reality, i may have to start.

For just pointing with three calibers and three bullets is in the range of $600 for the Whidden. What is interesting is that there are only 3 options for inserts (0, 1, 2) where Hoover has one for each bullet basically.

In reality, this price is pretty mutch on par with Hoover when talking about just the pointing system though the Whidden would be less expensive to expand to other calibers/bullets.

Hoover has a trimming system that can get pretty pricey....

Any recommendations on bullet trimming solutions?

 

[rwj]

Hoover has a trimming system that can get pretty pricey....

Any recommendations on bullet trimming solutions?

Though not an inexpensive solution… have you considered the MTAP?

MTAP - AUTOTAP (Meplat Trim and Point) System

fclassproducts.com

I believe it can also be configured to perform neck turning operations.

Edit to add this note from from the vendor’s web site… The MTAP System is a separate unit from the IDOD/AUTODOD and these set ups cannot be used on the IDOD/AUTODOD.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

holy tamales...

If I am planning to invest $1,000 in a full trim/point setup, another couple of hundred to have a precision one-stop-shop for a couple of hundred more might not be a deal breaker.