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Bullet questions, Berger 153.5 Long Range Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

SteveOak

Gold $$ Contributor
I have an itch, a mild one at least for now, but surprisingly persistant, I would like to shoot a mile. Just ringing a 2 MOA gong consistantly, no competition.

I do not presently have a rifle that I consider up to the task so I would need to find or build one. I am happy to shoot a 6 PPC @ 300 yards which may be past it's optimum range but I enjoy the challenge. I might strain the barrel on my 6 BR at a mile but I think it has been done.

It seems like the Berger 153.5 LRHT bullet would be good. What is the minimum muzzle velocity needed to keep this bullet performing adequately to 1 mile?

What cartridge can achieve this muzzle velocity? Hint, 260 Rem AI would be a great answer. LOL

The Berger 6.5mm 144gr LRHT bullet might be an acceptable alternative.

Thanks!
 
Many years back, I used a 260 with 142 Sierra’s single feeding. Even with a 20 moa rail, I didn’t have enough elevation on scope for 1200 yds. If you’re thinking of the 153.5, I would suggest looking more into the 6.5x284.
I would agree with going 6.5x284.
More room to hit the gas pedal
You want to stay supersonic
I will add, the best bullet I tried in a custom 260 Rem was the 153.5 Berger.
Most accurate and best trajectory.
I didnt shoot the 260 past 1200 yds though
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For Mile and beyond I use a custom 6x284.
better than a 6.5 (in my opinion) simply due to velocity. (Stays Supersonic past 1760)
Who cares if they got a rep for being a barrel burner. Don't let it get that hot then.
Mine needs 18.5 Mils for 2200 yds. @ 3700 ft El... Easy Peasy
 
If you want it to shoot consistently well at long range, you should pick a system that remains above the transonic zone (above mach 1.2) all the way to the target. The range at which you hit transonic flight depends on the elevation you will be shooting. I think you will find that with a given caliber and rifle, the higher BC bullet will travel farther before reaching transonic conditions.
 
@ELR LVR

I am sure you figure it out. A friend of mine had a 6-284AI. The bullets (Sierra, no sure which ones.) would go about 80 to 90 yards before disintegrating.

I had narrowed the field to 260 Rem AI, 6.5-284 -.150", and 6.5-284. I have not completely ruled out the 284 or 284 AI.

Now I have to consider 6-284. LOL

This thread reflects my normal selection process. First I identify a bullet or bullets most likely to accomplish my goals. The weighting there is about 70% bullet and 30% cartridge.

What are the drawbacks of a 6-284 other than barrel life?
 
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I shot the 153.5 a little out of my new PRC, I was getting an average of 2881 fps the few times that I tried it. I’m probably only going to shoot the rifle out to 600 so I have spent more time with the 140 grain EH.
 
Many years back, I used a 260 with 142 Sierra’s single feeding. Even with a 20 moa rail, I didn’t have enough elevation on scope for 1200 yds. If you’re thinking of the 153.5, I would suggest looking more into the 6.5x284.
How much elevation did your scope have?
I’ve shot a few 6.5 rifles with 20 moa rails out to a mile but you still usually need to use a bit of reticle.
 
I shot the 153.5 a little out of my new PRC, I was getting an average of 2881 fps the few times that I tried it. I’m probably only going to shoot the rifle out to 600 so I have spent more time with the 140 grain EH.
That's the velocity did well for me with H4831sc pushing my 153.5's out of a 26" PRC barrel. But I liked what N565 was giving me better where I was getting good results at 2978 fps. :)
 
How much elevation did your scope have?
I’ve shot a few 6.5 rifles with 20 moa rails out to a mile but you still usually need to use a bit of reticle.
That was 15 years ago, if I remember correctly it was 85 moa elevation and was a duplex reticle. So no hold over marks. I held the top edge of a 6x6 nra target, so 3’ high of center.
 
I shoot the 153.5 in my 260AI F/Open guns. I typically shoot the low node around 2800fps with excellent consistency. I can likely push another 100+ fps out of it, but don't want to trash my brass. 1760y might be a little much for the '08 case volume, but stepping up to the 6.5-284, 6.5x55AI, PRC to comfortably get you closer to 3000fps would be better.
 
@ELR LVR

I am sure you figure it out. A friend of mine had a 6-284AI. The bullets (Sierra, no sure which ones.) would go about 80 to 90 yards before disintegrating.

I had narrowed the field to 260 Rem AI, 6.5-284 -.150", and 6.5-284. I have not completely ruled out the 284 or 284 AI.

Now I have to consider 6-284. LOL

This thread reflects my normal selection process. First I identify a bullet or bullets most likely to accomplish my goals. The weighting there is about 70% bullet and 30% cartridge.

What are the drawbacks of a 6-284 other than barrel life?

---(No Drawbacks other than barrel life, I can find, brass life is good too
---after 1000 rnds you may need to set the barrel back
I got 1900 rounds of accurate barrel life out of my last barrel
My current barrel has about 1200 rounds and velocity has fallen off slightly which means its time to set it back slightly but it is still accurate)
I use both Lapua and Win Brass, the Win brass holds up just fine)
------------------
Don't know what your "friend" was doing or thinking but
There is really no reason to AI a 6x284
it already has a 30 deg shoulder and enough powder room to push bullets beyond their capabilities
60 grns of water capacity
-----------------------------------
Anyway, whatever your "FRIEND" was doing he could have just had the wrong combination of components, twist rate, groove count etc or
...been trying to as Berger told me when I confronted them with their 115 "Hunting" bullets exploding at only 3200 fps....
"Pushing the bullets beyond their designed capabilties"
(Also, no Hornady anything holds up to a 6x284 so fugget about it.)
------------------------------------
Sierra 107's have and always did hold up to 3400 fps which is a very fine comfort zone for the 6x284
As a tip - H1000 is THE POWDER of choice for this cartridge.
Other powders will worrrrrrk , but, why ? Why hamstring yourself
(I actually load for 3370 fps which is perfect)
That's Enough velocity as well for very flat trajectories to shoot past 1 mile.
Sure a guy might be able to push to 3500 fps without pressure signs with the right powder
BUT
That is when jacket integrity starts to become compromised
The Twist rate is a factor to consider here
We first started off using 9.5 and then the "Fast Twist" 1:9 barrels 30 years ago
But that was with the Sierra 107 gr
Going faster could be the culprit with "Your Friend" say if he went faster than a 1:8
30 yrs ago a 1:8 was unheard of / because there were no bullets with High enough BC's to require it.
Now it is the Norm which shows the recent advancements in bullet technology.
Maybe your friend did not do enough of his due dilligence with Stability factors and just went with the flow of all other slower 6mm guys like the 6BR's and such and tried a 1:7.5 twist, I dunno???
That is too fast for a bullet traveling 3400 fps and spinning past 270,000 rpm.
--------------
I use a 1:8 only because I like taking advantage of the Highest BC (.620) 6mm bullets
such as the 115 DTACS
Sierra 107's and Lapua 105's and Berger 95's hold up fine in my barrel
I also use a 4 groove Krieger
Maybe your friend used a 6 groove?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(more sharp points equals = more stress risers = equals more bullet blow ups)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or he used a cheap make of barrel which compromised interior barrel finish
(A Non single point cut / non lapped barrel?)
maybe it was just a fun project and he skimped somewhere along the line?
Anyways I've been doing 6x284's for years so I know what I'm doing with them and know the capabilities and limitations and work within those confines.
These are all factors within getting a custom wildcat to work correctly.
You build the gun "Around the bullet", just like you build an engine around its camshaft and the select all other components accordingly.
I built mine around the 115 DTAC
I only use/tried other bullets when 115 DTACS are unavailable.
-------------
a 243 AI or a 260 AI is still a very fine choice
But when your scope is toppped out in elevation at 1500 yds -
I still have 50 more MOA to be able adjust up. (Yeah I shoot that far)
The 260 Rem I built really impressed me .............out to 1200 yds though. Just too slow.
and I liked being able to use a short action for one of my Long Range rigs so the 260 fit the bill there.
You won't be disappointed with a 260AI
The 6x284 is more of a Dragster Hotrod, I only own one. But like any Muscle Car Hot Rod
Man did I soak some coin into it lol
and it DID NOT disappoint.
When you want Flat Fast Trajectory way the F&^% past 1000 yards
You COULD use something like a 338 Lapua or a 300 NORMA AI
But .............the 6x284 has flatter trajectory..................
30 yrs ago the only other cartridge that could touch it was a 50 BMG.
But the 50 BMG is not a very economical or realistic choice.
--------------------------------
The 6x284 basically has NONE or very LITTLE Felt RECOIL, in a heavier 15-20 lb rig.
Or, 6.5 ft/lbs of recoil in my case
--------------------------------
Reduced recoil translates to more accuracy,

One reason 6BR's are so accurate at 600 yds, no recoil to move the gun while the bullet is traveling down the bore.
Mine weighs 19 lbs and feels like shooting a light .223 or an AR, the gun barely moves.
You can watch bullet strikes as close as 100 yds.
( I like being able to spot my bullet splash at close ranges as well as long ranges)
When the big boomers will throw you out of sight picture leaving you guessing.
and a 6x284 is cheaper on the wallet for bullets, powder, brass etc
In other words
Its a good ecenomical choice to have lots of fun poking stuff out there ....way far away
and the money saved buys you a new barrel every 2 years.
Mine actually lasted 5 years this last time because I baby it and dont let it get past warm to the touch.
Plus a full contour 1.25" 30 inch long barrel helps reduce heat build up with all that mass.
which only aids to barrel life.
--------------------------------------
If you want an even more fun gun for 1000 yds and closer
Try a 220 Swift Ackley Improved
Thats the only other gun I favor over a 6x284
Run the numbers against all other guns
I only need 6-3/4 MOA to hit at 600 yds (plus accuracy is 1.25" 3 shot groups at 600)
a 260 will need 12 MOA for 600 yds. (Double)
------------------------------------------------
Thats FLAT
.524 BC / 85.5 Berger at 3650 fps
It seems like it hits almost the moment you pull the trigger
Where you can tell even the fast 6x284 takes a moment to get there
-----------------------------------------------
For me, the name of the game is not just accuracy but
"How Flat can you make it"
Runs some numbers on Ballistics and compare and you'll see what I mean
The less you have to adjust scope, the easier it is to hit stuff because the less the margin of error.
------------------------------------------------
Like if I only need to adjust 1 more MOA to reach another 100 yds
compared to 3 more MOA with a .260
My chances of hitting just increased by being 2 MOA closer simply by the nature of the beast.
 
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@ELR LVR

Lots of good info there, thanks!

My friend, Sam Shelly, was retired Navy and apparently had sufficient means to live the life he pleased which was, I joked, to launch his body weight in lead downrange every month. LOL

To that end he worked at Gary Schneider's shop and took payment in barrels. He had at least 10 Remington 40X's with McMillan stocks and Jewell triggers. Each wearing a Leupold BR scope and had at least 10 barrels for each rifle. He had a stockpile of loaded ammo, 150 loaded rounds for each barrel, stored in 2 lb coffee cans. He also shot Benchrest and High Power Rifle Silhouette at Ben Avery.

If one has >100 rifle/barrel combinations, one is not limited to factory offerings nor even run of the mill wildcats. The 6-284 AI was one of his experimental cartridges.

I showed up empty handed at a Rifle Silhouette match and when I heard a shot fired and then, after some delay, the sound of the bullet hitting a steel Ram at 500 meters, I was a goner. Sam took me under his wing and in short order had me suitably outfitted to shoot Rifle Silhouette.
 
@ELR LVR



If one has >100 rifle/barrel combinations, one is not limited to factory offerings nor even run of the mill wildcats. The 6-284 AI was one of his experimental cartridges.
Ahhhh, ok, so it was the opposite of what I was thinking
He had so many he likely figured, "Why not"
That sounds very cool, and like a fun experiment at the very least.
--------------
Your first experience sounds cool too
My first long range experience was with a 6x284
I did not work up to long range
I was started off......................at 1700 yds
Never shot much past 300 before that
I must say after that I was hooked too lol
It took quite awhile afterward to learn everything involved with getting a rifle to be able to do that
 

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