........... or more pertinently, how we ever get to the range to shoot, as the bullet selection and prep steps are at risk of taking up all of one's spare time.
Bullet Pointing
- Thread starter rwj
- Start date
........... or more pertinently, how we ever get to the range to shoot, as the bullet selection and prep steps are at risk of taking up all of one's spare time.
mikeeg02
Michael Glantz
The best thing you can do, is measure, trim, measure, point, and try different things and test them yourself. Measure as many aspects as you can think of, of the bullet before and after trying to modify them(base to ogive, bearing surface, over all length, etc). You'll likely end up messing up a few, but you will find a point to where you're not changing the important aspects (distorting the bullet). Then shoot and test what you have done.
I am relatively new to it myself, but I have a barrel thats been inconsistent this year, and I tested the same load with trimmed, pointed, both, and its really come to life since I started. I have also shot reference groups with untouched bullets. I just wish I started sooner, but I know what my winter project will be.
Everything will start to make sense to you when you measure all the aspects of the bullets, do your thing to it, and re-measure and see how consistent you can make things.
EDIT: Also, there are a few guys here who still post (Matt Kline and Jim O'hara to name a couple that I have shot next to before) who really have a lot of experience testing, shooting, and winning.(And some setting records for more then 10 years) I know you clarified that you didnt mean to come off as attacking their methods, but we keep losing guys like this on this forum because of snarky comments. When these guys are giving up information, absorb every bit of it, and when something makes sense to you too, test it. Maybe it doesnt make sense, but test it. Then you too will understand. Some things will work for you, and some may not. It all depends on the level you are at.
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EDIT: Also, there are a few guys here who still post (Matt Kline and Jim O'hara to name a couple that I have shot next to before) who really have a lot of experience testing, shooting, and winning.(And some setting records for more then 10 years) I know you clarified that you didnt mean to come off as attacking their methods, but we keep losing guys like this on this forum because of snarky comments. When these guys are giving up information, absorb every bit of it, and when something makes sense to you too, test it. Maybe it doesnt make sense, but test it. Then you too will understand. Some things will work for you, and some may not. It all depends on the level you are at.[/QUOTE]
Mike ... I agree with what you are saying to a point. Y’all need to understand that I (along with others) do not know who these people are. I do not currently compete or follow the competition and their screen names do not identify them as such. Most all personal data on peoples board profiles show nothing. How would I (or anyone) know how to weight their input? That is part of why I ask for data. The only person I recognize ‘credentials’ for is Laurie from Target Shooter Magazine. Sorry I’m not with the ‘in’ crowd of the shooting world but there doesn’t seem to be many big matches here in Central Florida.
Mike ... I agree with what you are saying to a point. Y’all need to understand that I (along with others) do not know who these people are. I do not currently compete or follow the competition and their screen names do not identify them as such. Most all personal data on peoples board profiles show nothing. How would I (or anyone) know how to weight their input? That is part of why I ask for data. The only person I recognize ‘credentials’ for is Laurie from Target Shooter Magazine. Sorry I’m not with the ‘in’ crowd of the shooting world but there doesn’t seem to be many big matches here in Central Florida.
Follow me and you're definitely with the 'out crowd'. A fellow BR / F shooter and good friend from my main club and I regularly greet each other with the words: 'Hello, has-been!'
(Sadly, he's reneged on me - he's won some F-TR matches recently, not to mention this year's UKBRA 1,000 yard BR Heavy Gun class. The traitorous swine! 
)
(Sadly, he's reneged on me - he's won some F-TR matches recently, not to mention this year's UKBRA 1,000 yard BR Heavy Gun class. The traitorous swine!
)
mikeeg02
Michael Glantz
I dont know all the Williamsport guys, nor all their screen names. But the best thing you can do is read whats written, form your own methods, and test yourself. Most of these guys tested these things years ago and are miles ahead of us. They have data and have recorded it, but likely arent going to dig it up for you(or anyone for that matter). And they tested things to the best of their abilities, whether scientific enough for people or not, they arent putting in the extra time for no good reason.
Also, most of these guys are pretty humble, and arent going to just tell you their credentials. Most of them anyways.
If you read here much you will be able to sort through the noise. But still, test everything! There's no one step short cut to shooting small, its a bit of a journey.
Also, most of these guys are pretty humble, and arent going to just tell you their credentials. Most of them anyways.
If you read here much you will be able to sort through the noise. But still, test everything! There's no one step short cut to shooting small, its a bit of a journey.
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
^^^^^^^this^^^^^^
CW
Edit; If you get Joe bring ear plugs and high boots...LOL
Jim now I'm not going to give you anymore information! Keeping it all to myself. with these guys I think GOD could post on here and tell them pointing works and they would still question him.
Guys I know 30 Cal's work when you point them, that's at 1000 yards I'm still playing with the 6mm so I'm still out to lunch on that.
Joe Salt
Jim now I'm not going to give you anymore information! Keeping it all to myself. with these guys I think GOD could post on here and tell them pointing works and they would still question him.
Guys I know 30 Cal's work when you point them, that's at 1000 yards I'm still playing with the 6mm so I'm still out to lunch on that.
Joe Salt
Joe, good to hear you are still in it, I'm building my last gun just to come up and enjoy the great guys at Williamsport next year. Your right about the God part.... jim
M995
T SNOOK
You are always welcome to come up & shoot.
Thank you sir..... jim
Joe you are still a young pup ...... LMAO.... I think when you start to skip prep and loading steps is the end for me as long as I can see the target.... jim
The above is a point that is extremely well taken. It's hard to put a value on the contributions a Matt Kline makes on this forum. To take it one step further, We should all be reminded that there are potential new shooters reading these threads and we are being judged by the tone of our posts. It would be a shame to lose a new shooter because of "snarky" comments.
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Amen!
Being relatively new to bullet pointing, one of the things I wondered about what "How far down do I screw the die?". I've reviewed the photos and instructions with my Whidden system and note the concern about creating a bulge at the tip if you go too far. But that seemed to be a tough thing to judge exactly.
One piece of advice I got from another shooter was to measure base to ogive before pointing, then check after pointing to see if it had been altered. If so, you're messing up the bullet and need to back the die off. I used that approach for the last lot of bullets I just pointed, setting the pointing die so that I would get at most a half thou change in base to ogive on some bullets and none on others (due to OAL variation, bullets not sorted).
Does anyone else have tips on how much to point/where to stop that uses measurements instead of just visual evaluation?
One piece of advice I got from another shooter was to measure base to ogive before pointing, then check after pointing to see if it had been altered. If so, you're messing up the bullet and need to back the die off. I used that approach for the last lot of bullets I just pointed, setting the pointing die so that I would get at most a half thou change in base to ogive on some bullets and none on others (due to OAL variation, bullets not sorted).
Does anyone else have tips on how much to point/where to stop that uses measurements instead of just visual evaluation?
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Percent reduction in the meplat diameter has been cited in many threads. I plan to target a 40% reduction in my next samples, providing it does not alter the bullet’s BTO offset dimension as you noted.
I feel even .0005 change is too much. If the bearing length moved at all, you changed the bullet. If you gain say 5 percent, which is about the most you will gain, going that extra small amount of closure that changes the bearing, isnt that much of a gain. As an example of what I mean, suppose you point the bullet and gain the full 5 percent, but you move the bearing amount. When slightly less pointing would keep it at 4 percent and not damage the bullet bearing. Was it worth the one percent gain? Matt
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