Anecdotal, but I've pointed my bullets for a match, once. It was the highest score I've ever shot.![]()
Did he conclude that if you are not an elite shooter shooting at 1000 yards, it wasn't worth the effort?Litz did an entire chapter on pointing and trimming in Modern Advancements in LR shooting Vol II. His conclusion after a lot of testing is that if you are a elite shooter shooting at 1000 yards the BC improvement is worth the effort. Since 1000 yard ranges are scarce down my way and I am a novice I am not going to waste time and energy.
Did he conclude that if you are not an elite shooter shooting at 1000 yards, it wasn't worth the effort?
Any experience or thoughts on the Sierra 107 or 183 factory pointed bullets? They seem to have got there pointing right on a mass scale..As I mentioned previously, I did a lot of the direct comparison I carried out between pointed and unpointed bullet performance at 300 yd. The main reason for this was a particular match we shot at that distance (300 yd Reduced Palma Match was the title) in which 12" Shoot-N-C targets were used to overlay the 300 yd reduced NRA target. The 15-shot groups on Shoot-N-C targets made for very easy visualization of any difference between pointed and unpointed loads.
To address your question above, pointing bullets required a decrease in scope elevation of one to two clicks (0.125 to 0.250 MOA) at 300 yd to keep the groups centered. This result was pretty consistent for both .223 Rem and .308 Win loads with various bullets. My point is that any increase in BC will decrease the elevation required to center a group at some distance. If you can detect a reduction in elevation at a distance of only 300 yd, it will only get larger as the distance increases. So you could definitely detect a difference at 600 yd. Any decrease in elevation required to center on target means higher BC, which means less wind deflection, and that might possibly save a point or two in a match. A point or two in a match can make all the difference in where you finish, no matter what level shooter you may be. Points are points.
As I mentioned previously, I did a lot of the direct comparison I carried out between pointed and unpointed bullet performance at 300 yd. The main reason for this was a particular match we shot at that distance (300 yd Reduced Palma Match was the title) in which 12" Shoot-N-C targets were used to overlay the 300 yd reduced NRA target. The 15-shot groups on Shoot-N-C targets made for very easy visualization of any difference between pointed and unpointed loads.
To address your question above, pointing bullets required a decrease in scope elevation of one to two clicks (0.125 to 0.250 MOA) at 300 yd to keep the groups centered. This result was pretty consistent for both .223 Rem and .308 Win loads with various bullets. My point is that any increase in BC will decrease the elevation required to center a group at some distance. If you can detect a reduction in elevation at a distance of only 300 yd, it will only get larger as the distance increases. So you could definitely detect a difference at 600 yd. Any decrease in elevation required to center on target means higher BC, which means less wind deflection, and that might possibly save a point or two in a match. A point or two in a match can make all the difference in where you finish, no matter what level shooter you may be. Points are points.
Any experience or thoughts on the Sierra 107 or 183 factory pointed bullets? They seem to have got there pointing right on a mass scale..
See my post #11. The SMK 6.5 150 and the 7mm 183 are the bullets I was referring to.Any experience or thoughts on the Sierra 107 or 183 factory pointed bullets? They seem to have got there pointing right on a mass scale..
Did he conclude that if you are not an elite shooter shooting at 1000 yards, it wasn't worth the effort?
The problem for us shooters is as in many other aspects of precision loading that we become psychologically 'hooked' on procedures, makes of tools or components, preparation methods. Before you know where you are, loading 100 rounds becomes a week's work with all the measurement, batching, trimming, annealing, weighing to 0.0000 something grains etc. (Not to mention must-have the latest bullet design that gives a 0.1 average BC increase for a 20% increase in price!) It is very difficult to do something, have a good shoot with the resulting ammo, then stop doing it, so a ratchet effect applies - always more work or expense, never less. Applied Ballistics LLC is applying a 'Mythbusters' approach to many handloading practices and received wisdoms. Some (like flash-hole deburring / uniforming) are being validated; others either not at all or left as unclear about real benefits. Lots of people are going to be unhappy when tenets they regard as having come down from the mountain on stone tablets are challenged; some are going to be angry. Bullet trimming and pointing appears to fall into this category. I reckon people simply have to make their own minds up on these issues - if they work for you, then they work for you (or not as the case may be)! As I said in an earlier post, I'm an agnostic on this issue - I like the results with some bullets not with others ..... but I'd never challenge anyone who disagreed with me on it.
JimSC - I have been pointing the 90 VLDs for years. In my hands, it does offer a noticeable benefit. In fairness however, a good friend and fellow 90 VLD shooter also swears that pointing increased his vertical with them.
Wow, are you trying to justify it in your own mind for not trying it ? It is easy to see at 600 also, ES will drop, wind drift will be less and vertical will be way less all things are positive and it not worth your energy? ...... jim
From what I have read the die would not help very much on the bullets I normally use I would only see a couple of percent at most. If I shot different bullets I would reconsider.
If I had unlimited time and money I would certainly try everything. However that is not the case so I use what I have on what gives me the most results for my effort. For the last year that has meant upgrading to the next level of optics and triggers, and going through lots of components and wearing out barrels. I experimented with many reloading procedures some of which yielded significant improvements in velocity SD and some that showed none at all but I am happy with my group sizes. My problem is keeping those groups centered
Wife is mad at you guys because you have about talked me into getting a new toy.