Bull at 690yds 6.5x47L

[Alex Wheeler]

I still much prefer magnum cases for elk. I was out this morning, gusts of 26 mph, base of about 16 mph. Not uncommon elk hunting weather around here. If we are talking an elk rifle, the 6.5x47 wouldnt even be on my list. But in this case with the right conditions it was enough. So up in these mountains with the wind, taking shots off of unstable rests, exc. I definitely recommend a mag case if there are to be any long shots. Had there been enough wind to push that bullet into a shoulder blade things may not have ended so well. But, then he probably would not have shot. So, it still comes down to the shooter knowing his capabilities.

I guess my point is, elk hunting is hard work. If I find an elk, I want to be able to kill it with in 800 yards no matter what. You can kill elk with a .243, but you will pass up a lot of shots. For me its about meat, I dont want to buy beef and in the last few years I have only had one chance each year to kill an elk. Had I been undergunned and had to pass the shot I wouldnt have had elk meat that year. This morning was a good example. I hiked a ridge and got with in effective range with my 28 Nosler, too bad the elk were not where I expected them and were just onto private land. However, I wouldnt have considered taking that shot with anything less than a 300 win mag.

 

[Albany Mountain]

I still much prefer magnum cases for elk. I was out this morning, gusts of 26 mph, base of about 16 mph. Not uncommon elk hunting weather around here. If we are talking an elk rifle, the 6.5x47 wouldnt even be on my list. But in this case with the right conditions it was enough. So up in these mountains with the wind, taking shots off of unstable rests, exc. I definitely recommend a mag case if there are to be any long shots. Had there been enough wind to push that bullet into a shoulder blade things may not have ended so well. But, then he probably would not have shot. So, it still comes down to the shooter knowing his capabilities.

I guess my point is, elk hunting is hard work. If I find an elk, I want to be able to kill it with in 800 yards no matter what. You can kill elk with a .243, but you will pass up a lot of shots. For me its about meat, I dont want to buy beef and in the last few years I have only had one chance each year to kill an elk. Had I been undergunned and had to pass the shot I wouldnt have had elk meat that year. This morning was a good example. I hiked a ridge and got with in effective range with my 28 Nosler, too bad the elk were not where I expected them and were just onto private land. However, I wouldnt have considered taking that shot with anything less than a 300 win mag.

That's very well put.

 

[284winner]

I still much prefer magnum cases for elk. I was out this morning, gusts of 26 mph, base of about 16 mph. Not uncommon elk hunting weather around here. If we are talking an elk rifle, the 6.5x47 wouldnt even be on my list. But in this case with the right conditions it was enough. So up in these mountains with the wind, taking shots off of unstable rests, exc. I definitely recommend a mag case if there are to be any long shots. Had there been enough wind to push that bullet into a shoulder blade things may not have ended so well. But, then he probably would not have shot. So, it still comes down to the shooter knowing his capabilities.

I guess my point is, elk hunting is hard work. If I find an elk, I want to be able to kill it with in 800 yards no matter what. You can kill elk with a .243, but you will pass up a lot of shots. For me its about meat, I dont want to buy beef and in the last few years I have only had one chance each year to kill an elk. Had I been undergunned and had to pass the shot I wouldnt have had elk meat that year. This morning was a good example. I hiked a ridge and got with in effective range with my 28 Nosler, too bad the elk were not where I expected them and were just onto private land. However, I wouldnt have considered taking that shot with anything less than a 300 win mag.

Very good point. I own a 7mm mag, 300 mag and 338 mag but find using my 284 is just as effective for the same large game animals. Reloading has obviously made it possible. Yes many elk have been harvested with a 243 but shot selection is paramount. Accuracy rules regardless what cartridge you choose. Personally with the 6.5-284 and 284, I just don't feel a need for more gun. In some cases the heavy 30s are nice to have pushed from magnum cases. With today's bullets, that's becoming less necessary.

 

[Rem06]

A customer shot this bull in Idaho. Measured 365 with a broken tine, would have been 390. 690 yds with a 6.5x47L, 140 hunting vld at 2830fps. First shot humped up the bull and caused a major leak, heart or liver shot. A quick second shot dropped it. It never did take a step. Impressive performance from the little case.View attachment 993701

way to go! congratulations on a well placed shot! I shoot that same combo, 6.5x47 140 140VLD same speed and I was impressed with a 855yd antelope kill and several others including whitetail over 500 but you put it where it counted on an elk! impressive i'm sure you know you were pushing the limit ,way cool!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Over rated. Magnums aren't necessary on 99% of game in North America. Optional yes, mandatory definitely not. Accuracy is tho. That is what I believe is being stated here. Let's not take away from this gentleman's very well deserved trophy and accomplishment. He made the shot counts with the proper weapon.

Not taking anything away from him. That is a bull of a lifetime and he made an excellent shot. Job well done

Just saying that powerful magnums can be just as accurate and from my own many years of elk hunting experience in Montana, I agree with Alex 100 %.

The big magnums give you more options to take them down. Plain and simple. I took my bull elk down second day of rifle season this year using a 250gr Berger Elite Hunter at 2900 fps from a 338-375 Ruger. The angle that I took to get through to his vitals may not have been achieveable by my 6.5 Remington Magnum even though it pushes the 140gr Hunting VLD out at 3209 fps. Had to punch through the main lower bone in the front shoulder as he was quartering pretty good towards me and his chest was in the tree branches. Couldn't take the high shoulder shot either because a branch from the tree he was half behind was in the way. It was the only shot I had. One more step and he was in the trees and no chance of a shot. But I knew I had the right tool for the job slung over my shoulder that day and I made a clean kill with one perfectly placed shot at 311 yards. I probably wouldn't have allowed myself to take that shot if I would have had my 6.5 RM in hand and my freezer would still have plenty of empty space. Accuracy is no doubt the most crucial factor, but the big magnums don't require a perfectly broadside shot to punch through and destroy the vitals. If everything stood with a nice open path to the vitals when we wanted to shoot, then I suppose I wouldn't own large magnums for elk hunting. But when you've killed a decent amount of elk, you realize that the extra power is nice to have when you need it most.

 

[nmkid]

When I live in Wyoming for 16 years I got the chance to hunt 15 years. I started with a .270 shooting 150 gr. bullets. That very first year I passed up on a nice bull at about 350 yards because I wasn't confident in the bullet at the angle the elk was travelling away from me. So...I watched him go over a hill and disappear. The following year I had a 300 Win mag and the rest is history!!

 

[nakneker]

Ive hunted all my life, guided a few years too. Accuracy versus power is an arugument that's been around for a long time. I've seen guys that can shoot the big cartridges and shoot them well. I've also seen many hunters who don't shoot the big ones well, due to flinch or mental hang ups they struggle. I've seen many a hunter who are deadly with the lighter cartridges. Some of them pick their shots, some of them will take any shot they get and don't really care about the results. Personally I think a guy shooting a rifle he is comfortable with will be his best choice. If he chooses a smaller round hopefully he knows his limitations. 6.5x47l is a great example. That's a beautiful bull, congrats.

 

[gbp]

As the owner of a ranch dedicated to elk hunting.. I can assure you that I would rather have a hunter that is accurate with his weapon, consistently, knows their limitations and abilities, adheres to them than a hunter just touting a "Magnum" as a do all, make up the difference in my ability hunter.
It doesn't take a magnum to kill an elk

 

[Ledd Slinger]

As the owner of a ranch dedicated to elk hunting.. I can assure you that I would rather have a hunter that is accurate with his weapon, consistently, knows their limitations and abilities, adheres to them than a hunter just touting a "Magnum" as a do all, make up the difference in my ability hunter.
It doesn't take a magnum to kill an elk

I think a lot of folks get the misconception that because a person prefers a magnum for large game like elk, that those magnum "touters" think they can just shoot in the animals general direction and don't really care where the bullet hits. But that's not at all true. At least not with me or anyone else I know who wisely prefers a magnum for hunting elk.

I'm not sure where that all comes from or how it came about? I suppose theres some bad eggs out there that ruin it for the rest of us. But I can assure you that my favorite elk hunting large magnum is no inaccurate piece of equipment and I know exactly what it's limitations are AND what it can do that a smaller caliber cannot.

It doesn't take a large magnum to kill an elk. You are absolutelyright on that. Hell, it doesn't even take a rifle at all. Tons of elk fall each year to archery hunters. But like an arrow, a small caliber rifle may not be able to make a clean kill from certain angles. This is where the power of the large magnums come into play. The shot still has to be placed correctly of course and that's where accuracy still matters most, but with a large magnum, I can reach the vitals from certain angles of penetration that small cartridges like the 6.5x47L just couldn't possibly do. So basically, it gives you more options for making a clean kill instead of letting the animal get away.

As for using a magnum to compensate for hunting ability, well thats just nonsense.
I spotted my bull elk this year with a small herd at 1860 yards away on a far mountain slope. My brother and I patterned the herd of 11 elk that day with my spotting scope since it was too late to go after them. Watched them bed down and everything. Got back up on the same ridge the next morning and found them again. Watched them for about another hour as they fed and we carefully planned out our stock with over a mile of steep mountain valley terrain between us. We completely lost sight of them for a long time, and knew we would during the stalk, but had a good idea where they were heading from watching their movement the day before and paying attention to where they seemed to be headed that morning. We stalked right to them with not a single elk in the heard of 11 animals aware of our presense at all and made a clean kill with one shot at 311 yards. Then it was time to work. Completely de-boned and packed him out 4.5 miles ON FOOT through the mountains back to the truck.

We werent on a private ranch, or limited access block management, or elk farm. No 4 wheelers, side by sides, or guides to hold our hands. Completely DIY on state public land with no motorized vehicle access and real WILD elk that get hunters chasing them every year. If you know of a way that my magnum rifles can make hunting elk easier for me on public land, by all means, please let me know

 

[284winner]

I think a lot of folks get the misconception that because a person prefers a magnum for large game like elk, that those magnum "touters" think they can just shoot in the animals general direction and don't really care where the bullet hits. But that's not at all true. At least not with me or anyone else I know who wisely prefers a magnum for hunting elk.

I'm not sure where that all comes from or how it came about? I suppose theres some bad eggs out there that ruin it for the rest of us. But I can assure you that my favorite elk hunting large magnum is no inaccurate piece of equipment and I know exactly what it's limitations are AND what it can do that a smaller caliber cannot.

It doesn't take a large magnum to kill an elk. You are absolutelyright on that. Hell, it doesn't even take a rifle at all. Tons of elk fall each year to archery hunters. But like an arrow, a small caliber rifle may not be able to make a clean kill from certain angles. This is where the power of the large magnums come into play. The shot still has to be placed correctly of course and that's where accuracy still matters most, but with a large magnum, I can reach the vitals from certain angles of penetration that small cartridges like the 6.5x47L just couldn't possibly do. So basically, it gives you more options for making a clean kill instead of letting the animal get away.

As for using a magnum to compensate for hunting ability, well thats just nonsense.
I spotted my bull elk this year with a small herd at 1860 yards away on a far mountain slope. My brother and I patterned the herd of 11 elk that day with my spotting scope since it was too late to go after them. Watched them bed down and everything. Got back up on the same ridge the next morning and found them again. Watched them for about another hour as they fed and we carefully planned out our stock with over a mile of steep mountain valley terrain between us. We completely lost sight of them for a long time, and knew we would during the stalk, but had a good idea where they were heading from watching their movement the day before and paying attention to where they seemed to be headed that morning. We stalked right to them with not a single elk in the heard of 11 animals aware of our presense at all and made a clean kill with one shot at 311 yards. Then it was time to work. Completely de-boned and packed him out 4.5 miles ON FOOT through the mountains back to the truck.

We werent on a private ranch, or limited access block management, or elk farm. No 4 wheelers, side by sides, or guides to hold our hands. Completely DIY on state public land with no motorized vehicle access and real WILD elk that get hunters chasing them every year. If you know of a way that my magnum rifles can make hunting elk easier for me on public land, by all means, please let me know

I think we all know most guys on this site can shoot well. There's no doubt that you feel a magnum is your proper choice of firearm as you've expressed it very effectively. No justification needed just as the guys expressing that they don't require a magnum rifle to accomplish the same goal. It's always a good idea if you feel more confident with a magnum to use a magnum. You sound like an avid hunter with plenty of knowledge and experience. I do know for a fact SOME guys do compensate thinking if the shot is less than perfect, the magnum will still do the job. I've heard it in my own deer camp years ago by an old timer. He bragged about it. His big 300 win mag and how he blew the front shoulder leg off a deer and it did the job. I wasn't there but probably didn't blow the shoulder off but did destroy the leg with an imperfect shot. This story isn't to say that YOU are that guy. Sounds like your a hunter with accuracy at the forefront of importance. I just think the guys that do not use magnums when they don't feel they need them will never need magnums for that purpose. It's a matter of personal choice. As stated prior, many non magnums are excellent choice cartridges for elk at most ranges. Even at less than perfect angles. Accuracy dictates this fact. However, there are exceptions. I haven't used my 7, 300 or 338 for hunting since 1999. That's when I really started reloading and shooting seriously. Personally I'm very confident with a few non mags and they've served me well.

 

[AckleymanII]

It is amazing how close you can get to elk by riding a mule or horse with no metallic tack clanking. We worked our way down to a 243 with Nosler partitions, but shots were never over 100 yards with our cow tags. The biggest 2 bulls I ever shot was with a 7 Mag and the OLD first style 140g Nosler ballistic tips, you can not EVEN imagine how fast these two bulls died. I was of a mind set that I would choose my shot. I enjoyed riding the mules as much as the elk hunt. We jumped or rode up on elk often. The elk would spook, then stop and look back. Quartering angles from the rear was never an option on taking a shot with any of our rifles as it made for a near impossible tracking and trailing job into the most wicked deep ravines you can get down into.

A person that knows his rifle and is proficient with it and picks his shots can use much smaller calibers or faster expanding bullets, but he can never forget his limitations.

Ledd Slinger's account of his shot is spot on, and animals on the move running to you or away from you offer this kind of shot MORE OFTEN than not, and I have had to pass on several of them, one bull would have made the cover of any outdoor magazine on the market....I had less than 2 seconds on a 75 yard shot with a bad angle...I let him go.

I am glad the Alex made this post as it is a bull of a lifetime, not to mention the shooting skills his client has mastered, knew his limitations. Alex's customer has certainly made the case that elk are not hard to kill, all it takes is bullet placement.

I had a friend that shot 6 bulls with a Weatherby Mark 5 in 257 Weatherby using std Weatherby 117g factory ammo. None of the 6 bulls ran more than 40 yards after the hit. Then a guide told him that he needed a "elk" rifle. He sold the 257 and bought a 300 Winchester, and he had one heck of a time trying to master the shooting skills of that rifle. He finally traded it off and had a 6.5/284 built, but he has had several bulls run off from bad hits. He developed some very bad shooting habits with that 300 that I am not sure he will recover from.

As we discuss all of this, we have to remember that perhaps 15% of the guys get buck fever to some degree. A guy that gets "buck fever" is going to have trouble with about anything he shoots, but a lighter kicking gun seems to help them make better shots...no set rule on a guy that has half a brain. I did worry about getting shot off my own mule or my pack horse getting shot by one of these "buck fever" guys.

For my own limitations, the recoil of a 7 mag and 300 Winchester is about as much as I want to handle, and the 280 Nosler would be the best pick of either of them. An ethical hunter and experienced rifleman has to make up his mind whether or not he wants to pass on those quartering shots with bad angles or not, choose bullet construction accordingly for those shots.

 

[Beruisis]

Ackleyman, I can relate to your post. At one time I only had one rifle, a 25-06. I took several bulls & more cows. All one shot kills, less than 150 yards, used a Nosler 120 gr solid base, no longer made. Some guys told me I needed a real elk rifle so I moved up to the 300 win mag. Next bull I tool was right at 200 yards but required 2 shots. First shot was fatal but he was right next to a precipice so I head shot him second time. Regret selling the 25 cal but still enjoy the 300 as it is a hammer.
Also took a liking to mules instead of horses while elk hunting. Having horses along was like babysitting my sister's kids. Mules could pretty much take care of themselves & were a lot more sure footed. There was a shortage of them for awhile as our CIA was gathering them up & shipping them to Afghanistan to help move equipment for the rebels vs the Rooskies.
Regards,
Beruisis

It is amazing how close you can get to elk by riding a mule or horse with no metallic tack clanking. We worked our way down to a 243 with Nosler partitions, but shots were never over 100 yards with our cow tags. The biggest 2 bulls I ever shot was with a 7 Mag and the OLD first style 140g Nosler ballistic tips, you can not EVEN imagine how fast these two bulls died. I was of a mind set that I would choose my shot. I enjoyed riding the mules as much as the elk hunt. We jumped or rode up on elk often. The elk would spook, then stop and look back. Quartering angles from the rear was never an option on taking a shot with any of our rifles as it made for a near impossible tracking and trailing job into the most wicked deep ravines you can get down into.

A person that knows his rifle and is proficient with it and picks his shots can use much smaller calibers or faster expanding bullets, but he can never forget his limitations.

Ledd Slinger's account of his shot is spot on, and animals on the move running to you or away from you offer this kind of shot MORE OFTEN than not, and I have had to pass on several of them, one bull would have made the cover of any outdoor magazine on the market....I had less than 2 seconds on a 75 yard shot with a bad angle...I let him go.

I am glad the Alex made this post as it is a bull of a lifetime, not to mention the shooting skills his client has mastered, knew his limitations. Alex's customer has certainly made the case that elk are not hard to kill, all it takes is bullet placement.

I had a friend that shot 6 bulls with a Weatherby Mark 5 in 257 Weatherby using std Weatherby 117g factory ammo. None of the 6 bulls ran more than 40 yards after the hit. Then a guide told him that he needed a "elk" rifle. He sold the 257 and bought a 300 Winchester, and he had one heck of a time trying to master the shooting skills of that rifle. He finally traded it off and had a 6.5/284 built, but he has had several bulls run off from bad hits. He developed some very bad shooting habits with that 300 that I am not sure he will recover from.

As we discuss all of this, we have to remember that perhaps 15% of the guys get buck fever to some degree. A guy that gets "buck fever" is going to have trouble with about anything he shoots, but a lighter kicking gun seems to help them make better shots...no set rule on a guy that has half a brain. I did worry about getting shot off my own mule or my pack horse getting shot by one of these "buck fever" guys.

For my own limitations, the recoil of a 7 mag and 300 Winchester is about as much as I want to handle, and the 280 Nosler would be the best pick of either of them. An ethical hunter and experienced rifleman has to make up his mind whether or not he wants to pass on those quartering shots with bad angles or not, choose bullet construction accordingly for those shots.

 

[AckleymanII]

Ackleyman, I can relate to your post. At one time I only had one rifle, a 25-06. I took several bulls & more cows. All one shot kills, less than 150 yards, used a Nosler 120 gr solid base, no longer made. Some guys told me I needed a real elk rifle so I moved up to the 300 win mag. Next bull I tool was right at 200 yards but required 2 shots. First shot was fatal but he was right next to a precipice so I head shot him second time. Regret selling the 25 cal but still enjoy the 300 as it is a hammer.
Also took a liking to mules instead of horses while elk hunting. Having horses along was like babysitting my sister's kids. Mules could pretty much take care of themselves & were a lot more sure footed. There was a shortage of them for awhile as our CIA was gathering them up & shipping them to Afghanistan to help move equipment for the rebels vs the Rooskies.
Regards,
Beruisis

I rode the mules, packed the horses.

 

[AckleymanII]

Ackleyman, I can relate to your post. At one time I only had one rifle, a 25-06. I took several bulls & more cows. All one shot kills, less than 150 yards, used a Nosler 120 gr solid base, no longer made. Some guys told me I needed a real elk rifle so I moved up to the 300 win mag. Next bull I tool was right at 200 yards but required 2 shots. First shot was fatal but he was right next to a precipice so I head shot him second time. Regret selling the 25 cal but still enjoy the 300 as it is a hammer.
Also took a liking to mules instead of horses while elk hunting. Having horses along was like babysitting my sister's kids. Mules could pretty much take care of themselves & were a lot more sure footed. There was a shortage of them for awhile as our CIA was gathering them up & shipping them to Afghanistan to help move equipment for the rebels vs the Rooskies.
Regards,
Beruisis

I rode a mule, packed horses and other mules. Had Flame orange panyards for both the mules and horses, would quarter up the elk. What ever animal I tied the horns on, would get flame orange material covering up the horns or he would probably get shot, and I would leade him back. Some mules were freeky on smelling blood, used Vick's salve in their nose, they probably felt like bait for lions and bears. The mules always spotted the elk or deer before I did, like riding a big bird dog. I rode a really smart mule that would stop and stare in the direction of the animal. I would touch him on the neck with my left hand while holding the reins just prior to reaching for the scabbard, he would brace or park out for me to get off. Buck was a leade mule, others followed, had a homing devise that was second to none when it was time to start back to the truck, but Buck was scared to death of blue trash cans, never could get him used to them. He jumped 6' sideways in an instant when we rode up on a blue trash can on a trail, I don't think my balls have ever been the same since.

 

[muleystalker]

B

I still much prefer magnum cases for elk. I was out this morning, gusts of 26 mph, base of about 16 mph. Not uncommon elk hunting weather around here. If we are talking an elk rifle, the 6.5x47 wouldnt even be on my list. But in this case with the right conditions it was enough. So up in these mountains with the wind, taking shots off of unstable rests, exc. I definitely recommend a mag case if there are to be any long shots. Had there been enough wind to push that bullet into a shoulder blade things may not have ended so well. But, then he probably would not have shot. So, it still comes down to the shooter knowing his capabilities.

I guess my point is, elk hunting is hard work. If I find an elk, I want to be able to kill it with in 800 yards no matter what. You can kill elk with a .243, but you will pass up a lot of shots. For me its about meat, I dont want to buy beef and in the last few years I have only had one chance each year to kill an elk. Had I been undergunned and had to pass the shot I wouldnt have had elk meat that year. This morning was a good example. I hiked a ridge and got with in effective range with my 28 Nosler, too bad the elk were not where I expected them and were just onto private land. However, I wouldnt have considered taking that shot with anything less than a 300 win mag.

Beautiful bull, great accomplishment. Alex have you got to shoot anything with your 28 Nosler? I just got back from Colorado , it was tuff hunting warm weather. We stuck it out and I ended up with a 3x3 Miley, 5x5 bull shot at 968yards, cow at 743yards. I was shooting a 28 Nosler built for me by Davison Percission Rifles, a member here who goes by swd. Using the 195gr burgers. It worked great, both one shot kills. I took my 6.5 creedmoor as a backup gun, and would have felt very comfortable using it with the 140gr Berger hybrids, I have shot it so much I actually felt more comfortable behind it than the new 28 Nosler, just because I've shot it so much at long range. Even though we had just finished the 28 Nosler 1 1/2 weeks before my hunt, I had 300+ rounds through it, so I had confidence in it. Speed and energy definatly help, as long as it's put in the right place, and I really loving this 28 Nosler, perfect balance in the magnum class with those 195gr Bergers, animals dropped in their tracks, legs just buckled.
Again, that is a great bull, going to be hard to top that.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

B


Beautiful bull, great accomplishment. Alex have you got to shoot anything with your 28 Nosler? I just got back from Colorado , it was tuff hunting warm weather. We stuck it out and I ended up with a 3x3 Miley, 5x5 bull shot at 981yards, cow at 789yards. I was shooting a 28 Nosler swd built for me, with the 195gr burgers. It worked great, both one shot kills. I took my 6.5 creedmoor as a backup gun, and would have felt very comfortable using it with the 140gr Berger hybrids, I have shot it so much I actually felt more comfortable behind it than the new 28 Nosler, just because I've shot it so much at long range. Even though we had just finished the 28 Nosler 1 1/2 weeks before my hunt, I had 300+ rounds trough it, so I had confidence in it. Speed and energy defiantly help, as long as it's put in the right place, and I really loving this 28 Nosler, perfect balance in the magnum class with those 195gr Bergers, animals dropped in their tracks, legs just buckled.
Again, that is a great bull, going to be hard to top that.

I cant agree more. I have never really been excited about a hunting round. But this 28 nosler is the real deal. I took a cow last weekend. She didnt move. High lung shot, straight down. She was close though 300yds. A couple local guys have taken deer as well with the 28s as well. It is my favorite hunting cartridge for longer ranges.

 

[Grimstod]

If you cannot shoot it accurately then don't shoot it at all. I see more people who can't hit anything going out and wounding game with big magnums then smaller calibers. If you can't shoot accurately then don't shoot. If you can only shoot a case large enough for medium sized game because your recoil sensitive then don't take out a magnum that you cannot handle and try to whack something big. Shot placement first then game size. You can't have plenty of power and poor shot placement.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If you cannot shoot it accurately then don't shoot it at all. I see more people who can't hit anything going out and wounding game with big magnums then smaller calibers. If you can't shoot accurately then don't shoot. If you can only shoot a case large enough for medium sized game because your recoil sensitive then don't take out a magnum that you cannot handle and try to whack something big. Shot placement first then game size. You can't have plenty of power and poor shot placement.

True. But with a good stock and a muzzle brake even the 338s become tame.

 

[Grimstod]

True. But with a good stock and a muzzle brake even the 338s become tame.

And to heavy to

True. But with a good stock and a muzzle brake even the 338s become tame.

Those get to heavy at 12000ft.