Just read the article on cleaning with a rush and not pulling it back through. If a person has a muzzle brake in place it shouldnt hurt the crown to pull the brush bck through one wuold think? Also with a nylon brush would it hurt anything to allow the brush to get half way out the barrel then pull it back through?
Bronze brush cleaning
- Thread starter BarryL
- Start date
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
Usually the hole in the brake is only .020 larger than the bullet diameter so even if it's helping to support the brush it's still going to cut up the crown a little each time you pull a brush of any kind back through it.
I would rather pull the brush off and not pull it back through the barrel, instead of taking a chance on it.
I would rather pull the brush off and not pull it back through the barrel, instead of taking a chance on it.
Barryl,
I haven't read the article so tell me, how can you possibly
damage the crown by pulling the brush back through? Seems to me the amount of damage would be unmeasurable. Wouldn't the barrel
be completely shot out by the time any detectable damage showed
from a bronze brush being pulled back through? If starting the brush back through the barrel hurts the crown what is it doing
to the throat on the first pass? What of the damage done to
the lands at the crown from wiggling the rod while unscrewing the brush?
On a simialr note I use an aluminum cleaning rod with a bore
guide. I've never observed it but the pros that shoot a lot
more rounds per month than I do say that you can do real damage
to the lands at the crown by pushing the brush all the way out
of the barrel and letting the rod drop against the lands. It's
hard to clear the barrel without letting the rod hit at least
a little. I don't know if it's good, bad or neither but I put
electrical heat shrink on the rod next to the tip where the brush screws on to act as a bumper between the rod and the barrel. Just a piece about 3 inches long. This may not work
on the .17's or 22's because of the space issue, but on the
bigger calibers it works fine.
I haven't read the article so tell me, how can you possibly
damage the crown by pulling the brush back through? Seems to me the amount of damage would be unmeasurable. Wouldn't the barrel
be completely shot out by the time any detectable damage showed
from a bronze brush being pulled back through? If starting the brush back through the barrel hurts the crown what is it doing
to the throat on the first pass? What of the damage done to
the lands at the crown from wiggling the rod while unscrewing the brush?
On a simialr note I use an aluminum cleaning rod with a bore
guide. I've never observed it but the pros that shoot a lot
more rounds per month than I do say that you can do real damage
to the lands at the crown by pushing the brush all the way out
of the barrel and letting the rod drop against the lands. It's
hard to clear the barrel without letting the rod hit at least
a little. I don't know if it's good, bad or neither but I put
electrical heat shrink on the rod next to the tip where the brush screws on to act as a bumper between the rod and the barrel. Just a piece about 3 inches long. This may not work
on the .17's or 22's because of the space issue, but on the
bigger calibers it works fine.
With bronze brushes, as with any brush, the use of a quality bore guide is a must. There are differing opinions about whether to push the brush through, unscrew and start the whole process over vs. just pulling it back through the bore. If you elect to pull it back through the bore, it's important to not let it flop around and to ensure the base of the brush is against the edge of the crown before you start to pull it back. Doing so will ensure the brush is centered in the bore. If using this method it's a good idea to clean the brush of any powder fouling by spraying with brake cleaner which will minimize any abrasive action.
The jury is out as to whether you do harm by drawing the brush back through or not but if you follow the above, any damage to the crown is minimal. One thing you never want to do is try and reverse a bronze brush once it's halfway down the bore.
Lou Baccino
Chino69
The jury is out as to whether you do harm by drawing the brush back through or not but if you follow the above, any damage to the crown is minimal. One thing you never want to do is try and reverse a bronze brush once it's halfway down the bore.
Lou Baccino
Chino69
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
A brush will have the fine wires reversed when it's pulled back into the barrel at the crown and it will eventually wear the crown to the point that accuracy will go away because of it.... Look at the brush when it's out of the barrel at the muzzle and you'll see that the little wires are pointed backwards a little, well I don't want those little bent backwards wires cutting up a perfect crown. Do it a lot and if you have a Hawkeye bore scope you'll see what dragging a brush over it will do for you, and it don't take long to do it either......
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
If a nylon brush is dirty and it's pulled back through the bore it will eventually wear the crown.
It probably wont do it the first few passes but you can bet that sooner or later it will take it's toll on the crown.....
Get some CarbOut and stop all that scrubbing...
Akbushape-- The wires are not pointed in the wrong direction when you push it into the chamber area, and that's not near as critical to accuracy as the crown is..
If your cleaning rod has a coating on it and it's kept clean you'll not be hurting the crown when you unscrew the brush...
Aluminum rods without a coating are a no-no, they can allow particles of crud to imbed in it and that will hurt the crown, bet on it.......
It probably wont do it the first few passes but you can bet that sooner or later it will take it's toll on the crown.....
Get some CarbOut and stop all that scrubbing...
Akbushape-- The wires are not pointed in the wrong direction when you push it into the chamber area, and that's not near as critical to accuracy as the crown is..
If your cleaning rod has a coating on it and it's kept clean you'll not be hurting the crown when you unscrew the brush...
Aluminum rods without a coating are a no-no, they can allow particles of crud to imbed in it and that will hurt the crown, bet on it.......
as i see it the problem with the brush is not only pulling it back,but when it goes foreword and drops down on the brass of the rod.check it out with a bore scope after about 500 rounds. pushing and pull verses pushing and taking the brush off i can't see a bit of difference.if your real worried make a false muzzle of delrin. i just simply recrown every 500 to 1000 rounds to wake it up.........jim
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
My opinion is that it is really about rod technique, rather than the brush itself. If you look at this video on how one of the top French short range group shooters cleans her barrels you will see that she makes a point of being very light with the rod, and slow when starting the brush back into the bore on the return stroke. I was curious about what is in the unlabeled bottle. It is ATF and acetone, for removal of the easiest to remove powder fouling.
Personally, I think a lot of what is in this thread is opinion based on unproven imagining of what people think takes place. I know a very good shooter who gets more life from his PPC barrels than anyone I have ever heard of, with competitive accuracy, who cleans with a bronze brush after every individual five shot match. I think that people have seen damage and attributed it to the wrong cause.
the only reliable answer to that question is to check with a bore scope, before and after, and pay attention to use the same technique, same aged brush and same solution.
I brush both directions with a bronze brush, on the reverse stroke I start slow and ease the brush into the muzzle and have never had any perceptible accuracy decay.
I believe that the bullet, high pressure gas and all the particles venting out of the crown contribute more to
wear than the .009 bronze bristle at moving slowly through the crown.
I believe that the bullet, high pressure gas and all the particles venting out of the crown contribute more to
wear than the .009 bronze bristle at moving slowly through the crown.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Right.
The reason for asking is for a long time I've been doing 10-15 passes and that always left patches/streaks of carbon.
Just recently, for some reason I forget, I went 40 passes - and there were no patches or streaks left!
After another 60 shots, I went 30 passes - still no patches or streaks.
I'm just trying to do a 'sanity' check on what I'm seeing - is 30 passes like an whole, whole lot?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If it cleans it then its not too muchRight.
The reason for asking is for a long time I've been doing 10-15 passes and that always left patches/streaks of carbon.
Just recently, for some reason I forget, I went 40 passes - and there were no patches or streaks left!
After another 60 shots, I went 30 passes - still no patches or streaks.
I'm just trying to do a 'sanity' check on what I'm seeing - is 30 passes like an whole, whole lot?
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