Brass problem discovered at range

[HuntClub]

Asking for help understanding what the problem might be.

Ordered some once fired 7mm08 brass a couple of years ago and finally opened a pack to use. They still had primers so i did full size and trim and they fit beautifully in Hornady gauge. Doing a load test with some new Star brass and these once fired RP brass. Star line worked very well but TWO of the RP brass would not load. That is, the bolt handle would not close on them. I only loaded five of each and the other three RP brass worked very well too - but one was a little tight on locking the round in.

I bring them home and size check - then full length size again. even set trimmer to dust of the top and they still will not let the bolt close. Did a check on the rest of the bag and found six more (of the 50) that the bolt would not close on and another 5 that the bolt was tight on (like they had just been shot with over pressure).

The only thing I can think that it might be is the base of the brass - maybe a little oversize? But, I have never had this problem before. The brass that will not let the bolt close on have been trashed. the other in a bag for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[rijndael]

IME, a small base sizing is often needed when the brass is used in a different chamber, especially if it's from a factory chamber to a custom one. Sometimes the SB sizing doesn't fix it.

 

[Someone online]

Is the primer seated flush or just below flush? Or is it slightly protruding?
Is the bullet seated too long into the lands?
Is your headspace on the tighter end?

 

[Stan Taylor]

That's the very reason I don't use brass that wasn't done in my chamber used brass that is.
I run into that all the time people will say my brass won't work and your chamber That's after I put on a new barrel and there trying to uses brass that was shot in there old chamber an sometimes it just don't work.

 

[338 dude]

Asking for help understanding what the problem might be.

Ordered some once fired 7mm08 brass a couple of years ago and finally opened a pack to use. They still had primers so i did full size and trim and they fit beautifully in Hornady gauge. Doing a load test with some new Star brass and these once fired RP brass. Star line worked very well but TWO of the RP brass would not load. That is, the bolt handle would not close on them. I only loaded five of each and the other three RP brass worked very well too - but one was a little tight on locking the round in.

I bring them home and size check - then full length size again. even set trimmer to dust of the top and they still will not let the bolt close. Did a check on the rest of the bag and found six more (of the 50) that the bolt would not close on and another 5 that the bolt was tight on (like they had just been shot with over pressure).

The only thing I can think that it might be is the base of the brass - maybe a little oversize? But, I have never had this problem before. The brass that will not let the bolt close on have been trashed. the other in a bag for the zombie apocalypse.

Color the outside of the brass with a black sharpie then put it in the chamber try to close the bolt remove it and the black sharpie will be rubbed off at the point of contact indicating the problem

 

[acloco]

....or using loads developed for one rifle....and trying in multiple.

 

[searcher]

I'd measure the bases on the ones that don't fit as compared to those that do. If the bases are larger on those that wont load, that is likely your problem. A small-base die will fix the problem almost all of the time. Whether it would be worth buying one would likely depend on how many more bags of that you have. If it were only a half dozen to a dozen pieces that fail to load - I'd just toss them and call it a day. Also, some brass is very tough to tell if it has been fired more than one time. If it were picked up at a public range - one can never be really sure sometimes. some brands of brass - like Federal, often has a blue lacquer dot over the primer, a sign that it still has the factory primer in it. Most commercial brass is tough to tell though, lacking sizing marks.

 

[Webster]

Asking for help understanding what the problem might be.

Ordered some once fired 7mm08 brass a couple of years ago and finally opened a pack to use. They still had primers so i did full size and trim and they fit beautifully in Hornady gauge. Doing a load test with some new Star brass and these once fired RP brass. Star line worked very well but TWO of the RP brass would not load. That is, the bolt handle would not close on them. I only loaded five of each and the other three RP brass worked very well too - but one was a little tight on locking the round in.

I bring them home and size check - then full length size again. even set trimmer to dust of the top and they still will not let the bolt close. Did a check on the rest of the bag and found six more (of the 50) that the bolt would not close on and another 5 that the bolt was tight on (like they had just been shot with over pressure).

The only thing I can think that it might be is the base of the brass - maybe a little oversize? But, I have never had this problem before. The brass that will not let the bolt close on have been trashed. the other in a bag for the zombie apocalypse.

I have a 6BR and a 6BRX. I cannot chamber a fired 6BR case in my 6BRX to FF. I have to use new cases. Never tried to fL size and try it since I had 200 new cases on hand. No matter who makes the reamer they are not the same and each was made to +/- tolerances. I could get the 6BR case half way in the chamber and it jammed with the bolt hardly pushed down. Had to hammer the case out with a cleaning rod.

If a small base die cost $80 I think I would try some FL sized 308 range pickups cases in a 7/08 die and see if it works. It wouldn't hurt to try 1 case. You said a few of the cases did chamber so they are close to fitting. Since the case walls are tapered and the die walls are tapered I would think that if you could shove the case farther in the die it woulld reduce the body diameter a little. You probably would push the shoulder back more than you would like but it's a one-time fix. Hold the case in the die on the upstroke for 5 seconds to see if the case is a lttle smaller due to reducing springback.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Before you buy a small base die size the cases again and pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 to 5 seconds. This will reduce the amount of spring back after sizing.

If you have a carbide .45 acp die you can size the 7mm08 case body diameter smaller and further down the case. I do this with once fired Lake City 7.62 brass fired in fat chambered machine guns. You can also try using a 30-06 die and just size the case body. Just remember to pause at the top of the ram stroke to reduce brass spring back.

 

[varget204]

MIC a Fired Case compare to reload,may need to bump shoulder .001-.002

 

[Sandstorm]

Or just purchase new brass for you chamber....I too have had this issue once.

 

[cw308]

By full sizing your brass meaning full contact from die to Shellholder , all the cases should chamber easily , if nothing loosened I would think your bullet is seated too far out . If you can the next time , after sizing check your empty cases in chamber, if you can check the distance from base to ogive and base to datum on the shoulder , one of them are off.

 

[Homerange]

By full sizing your brass meaning full contact from die to Shellholder , all the cases should chamber easily , if nothing loosened I would think your bullet is seated too far out . If you can the next time , after sizing check your empty cases in chamber, if you can check the distance from base to ogive and base to datum on the shoulder , one of them are off.

Yep, used brass from another rifle check chambering first.
Size then recheck chambering.

The vast majority of my brass is range pickups preferably in reasonable lot #'s and if it won't chamber first up into the recycling it goes as it's not worth the problems it can cause as it's already been stretched to larger than my chamber......F*** that, reloading is supposed to be enjoyable not do your head in !

 

[Uncle Ed]

The main problem with using range pickup or buying once fired brass is the size of the chamber they were fired in. Having said that I'm a cheap bastard so I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass.

Lake City uses a very hard brass and the 7.62 cases can be extremely hard to resize. Meaning you have to stop halfway and pull the case out of the die and try again. This is where the .45 acp die or a 30-06 die can be used to reduce the bottom half of the case.

These Lake City cases are the most extreme example you will ever find sizing when using once fired brass fired in another chamber. But you can run into this with any brand of brass "fire formed" in another chamber.

Bottom line, you "might" have to size these cases several times, and you might need a small base die for the final sizing. The small base die will reduce the case body diameter back to minimum SAAMI dimensions.

Below three examples of Forster .308 dies, chambers and dies vary in size and nothing is written in stone.

So don't give up on once fired brass, you just need to show the case who's the boss.

And remember cheap bastards have more fun. You can tell who we are when you see us. We have one arm much bigger than the other and look like a crab.

P.S. The reloaders who buy once fired Lake City 7.62 brass are the ones who win all the arm wrestling contests.

 

[KY_Windage]

You just need to set the shoulders back on the ones that are hard to close the bolt on. Measure several cases (base to middle of shoulder with a Hornady comparator) that have been fired in your rifle (the more times fired, the better). Find the longest one. Set your FL die so that it sets the shoulder back about .003" shorter than that. Voila, you will be good to go.

That is what that big lock-ring on your FL die is for. By changing its position you change how far each case goes into the die. Once set right, any cases that are too long will easily be set back to the perfect dimension for your chamber. Ones that are too short will of course still be too short, but that is seldom a problem. Even brass that has been fired in your rifle exclusively will eventually get so long there is resistance to closing the bolt, unless your FL die is setting the shoulder back as it should be.

With some dies I have to grind a bit off the bottom of the die in order to allow the case in far enough to set the shoulder back. Some people feel the better thing to do is to grind (or turn) the shell holder down, but I disagree and prefer just shortening the die.

 

[cw308]

I get my once fired brass 308 from a friend I shoot with , I'm shooting a Rem.700 his is a Howa1500 . Getting it off the ground or from a bucket , you don't know if there from a reloader and the case has been loaded a number of times. Even though there fired in a different chamber , after cleaning if they have any resistance going into the die I'll lower the ram and add alittle more lube , makes the glide much easier.
I full size to .002 case headspace , trim and chamfer every firing to the same length , uniform and deburr the flashhole only once , only on rifle cases , I guess if I could shoot as accurately with a hand gun I'd do the same .
Chris

 

[rijndael]

FWIW: My Forester NM .308 die sizes the case shoulder junction an extra .004-.005 over my Redding Type S die. I don't know if that's a feature of their NM die, or if their other .308 dies do it too.

 

[Artisan]

Asking for help understanding what the problem might be.

Ordered some once fired 7mm08 brass a couple of years ago and finally opened a pack to use. They still had primers so i did full size and trim and they fit beautifully in Hornady gauge. Doing a load test with some new Star brass and these once fired RP brass. Star line worked very well but TWO of the RP brass would not load. That is, the bolt handle would not close on them. I only loaded five of each and the other three RP brass worked very well too - but one was a little tight on locking the round in.

I bring them home and size check - then full length size again. even set trimmer to dust of the top and they still will not let the bolt close. Did a check on the rest of the bag and found six more (of the 50) that the bolt would not close on and another 5 that the bolt was tight on (like they had just been shot with over pressure).

The only thing I can think that it might be is the base of the brass - maybe a little oversize? But, I have never had this problem before. The brass that will not let the bolt close on have been trashed. the other in a bag for the zombie apocalypse.

Color with magic-marker (338 dude) especially the head area. Can you feel any difference or resistance when sizing. Being one who uses a hand-deprimer, it tells me allot about any pocket expansion, which the case may have acquired. Found some recently, just like your's, but were 5.56 Nato. They were sent to me, by another member to process. Seven different headstamps, only R-P cases had a resistance, near the base. Once it became apparent, I could see the slight bulge, just above the head, even before sizing. Had I tried to size them, my die would be out of commission. Either someone, packed these to max., had a bad bolt-extractor-chamber, or R-P had a problem when producing them. The rim may be out of spec., just enough to, not work with your bolt. Could be from the bolt or chamber, that fired them. Instead of using a bolt, some use a small monkey, with a miniature jaws-of-life, to extract the case from the chamber.
There's nothing wrong with once-fired cases, as long as they are just that and not reloads from Johnny who shoots 5,000 FPS, using an AK-47 bolt.

 

[JFrank]

When I get resistance closing a bolt the problem is normally up front, CBTD area if im getting clickers or hard extraction I need more sizing at the .200 datum.

 

[rijndael]

E Gads that's a lot of sizing at the CSJ maybe get that honed out a tad..

Yep, it's on the to-do list.