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Boron Nitride

David Tubb,
The Boron Nitride is interesting and I have been wondering when a match bullet with a plastic tip would surface. Couple of questions on the Boron Nitride coating, may the BN coating be applied by the mechanical plating process like Moly? If so what grade of BN and are you going to have it available at SSS?
 
Larry,
I googled Boron Nitride and found a whole host of information. I went to David's site and found nothing. I'm interested but I guess we will have to wait until someone has the stuff available and an application method that's proven. Ive tried with and without moly and moly is my choice, so, if Boron Nitride is a "better moly" I'm in.
Mark
 
I asked David how he's applying the Boron Nitride to bullets and he simply said--"we do it the same way we apply moly." I believe that's by tumbling. It works by itself, meaning no wax is necessary. Studies by Norma strongly suggest moly is much more effective with a wax layer on top.

Others have asked what grade of Boron Nitride is being used. Again, I don't have an answer for that. But I'll call David on Monday and see if we can get some more answers.
 
There are several ways that boron nitride is better than moly for use in firearms. Moly is insoluble in water and unreactive toward dilute acids. Its melting point is 1185 °C, but it starts oxidizing in air from 315 °C, limiting the range of its use as a lubricant in the presence of air between the temperatures of -185 and +350 °C The oxidation products of MoS2 is molybdenum trioxide,MoO3) and sulfur dioxide. MoS3 is hydroscopic and causes many of the friction problems in standard atmosphere. MoO3 is itself a lubricant in dry atmospheres. MoO3 is of itself not abrasive, but attracts moisture vapor contamination. Sulfur dioxide can react further in the presence of water vapor to produce acidic compounds like H2SO3 and H2SO4.

Under select conditions WS2,Danzac)will bear a higher load than MoS2. These conditions include temperatures >400 F and high pressures,like in firearm). Oxidation products form at higher temperatures than moly.

Both moly and tungsten oxidation products should be cleaned from the gun.

Hexagonal boron nitride has a low coefficient of friction similar to MS2 and WS2. The most interesting lubricant feature is its high temperature resistance of 1200ºC service temperature in an oxidizing atmosphere which is important in a firearm. Since it doesn't have the sulphides that moly and tungsten disulphide have the corrosive oxidation products are not formed during firing.

BN should be better the MoS2 and WS2 because it can handle the oxidizing atmosphere,has a higher load bearing capacity, and doesn't form corrosive oxidation products.

The possible down side to BN is that Boron nitride can be used to make crystals that are extremely hard, second in hardness only to diamond, and the similarity of this compound to diamond extends to other applications. Like diamond, boron nitride acts as an electrical insulator but is an excellent conductor of heat. I don't know under what conditions these crystal are formed and if those conditions can be found in the barrel during firing.
 
Larry,

Do I hear the sound of BN and bullets going into a peanut butter jar to get tumbled?

When I was googling things I ran across one or two references that seemed to suggest that it may improve the coating process to warm the bullets up before tumbling. I will need to see if I can find the reference again to see what the temperature was.

I head my bullets before molying them both to make sure that any water is driven out of the meplat and to prepare them to receive the moly as I seem to achieve better moly coating when the bullets are warm.

Let us know how your experiment progresses.

Cheers,

Rick
 
Just ordered 1 LB from Ken Katakia, Lowerfriction Lubricants,,Divn. of M K Impex Canada)

http://mkimpexcanada.trustpass.alibaba.com

http://www.lowerfriction.com/index.asp

Hex-Boron Nitride powder, 0.45 micron

½ lb: US$45

1 lb: US$70

5 lbs: US$54/lb

All prices in US$, FOB Toronto,Shipping extra)

Delivery: Immediate from stock


I have ordered tungsten disulfide,ws2) from them in the past. They take PayPal.

Joel
 
It’s my understanding that the application is the same as Moly or tungsten disulfide. I use NECO steel shot and tumble in an RCBS tumbler with no wax. I would assume that any of the Moly kits would work for Boron Nitride. I should have the Boron Nitride in hand by Wednesday. After I do a batch I will post my findings.

Joel
 
Thanks for the info Joel. I've bought WS2 from lower friction but did not know about the boron. I'm definately awaiting your results.

SShhh Don't tell my Kreiger Palma A-maxs arent a "real" match bullet. It cant tell the difference between them and scenars but my wallet can.
 
Joel,
Did you get your Boron Nitride yet?
Any coating results?
How many ounces of Boron Nitride would you guess it would take to full a 12 ounce beverage can?
 
I just received it last night. It was sent priority mail; however, it seems customs inspected the package. That added a week and half to the delivery time. It is a very fine white powder. It is lighter than Moly. I would guess that twelve fluid OZ would weight 4 or 5 OZ. Unfortunately the next week or two is very busy so I am not sure when I will run a batch. When I do I will post results.

Joel
 
Joel,
You still around and did you ever get a chance to try coating bullets or shooting any bullets with the boron Nitride powder.
Larry
 
Yes, Joel, if you are still around and would share your test results of your boron nitride coated bullets, I would sure appreciate it.
 
I'm not Joel, but I tried some BN with my 6.5-284. Here are my results: I ladder tested using H4831SC, Lapua Brass, BR-2 primers, and with 142 SMKs loaded 15 thou into the lands.

My application process was simple, half of a 1/8 teasp scoop of BN mixed with a few tiny droplets of 70% isopropynol, tupperware large enough to hold 100 bullets and a tumbler. I was looking for a thick paste. I tumbled for about an hour, although in retrospect, 15 minutes would have gotten the same amount of coverage. Even better would have been to tumble for a few minutes, rotate, and repeat until uniformly coated.

The isopropynol will evaproate some what quickly when you dump your bullets out, so I recommend making a small box with windoscreen for a bottom. This will allow you to dump the bullets on to a surface where it can dry evenly. I made the mistake of dumping them directly onto a towel and immediately rolling them around. 90% or more of the BN ended up on the towel, and the bullets were no longer uniformly coated. I tossed them back into the tupperware, hand shook the box, and dumped them back onto the towel, but gave them 15 minutes to dry before gently rolling them around to pull off the excess BN. If dumped into a pile, the bullets in the middle will still be wet. Make the box and save yourself the headaches I had.

OK, so we have coated bullets and the load, what were the results? BN will knock off a considerable amount of velocity. According to my chronygraph, my loads ranged from 2720fps with 48.5 gr to 2895fps with 51.1 gr of H4831SC. I haven't shot groups yet, so I can't talk about ES or SD quite yet. I can say that the barrel was easy to clean between groups. I shot each 15 shot test group with no cleaning between shots out of my Savage factory barrel.

I should also mention that the BN I used was purchased through Lower Friction and was their BN 1 lb sample pack. Assuming I don't spill it, this is probably a lifetime supply for even the large volume shooters.

Hope this helps.

-bnw
 
Requesting more info on BN coating. How do you prep the barrel ? Same as when using moly ? Start with clean,Extremely clean) bore and wet patch with denatured alcohol then sprinkle BN, then burnish into barrel OR do you just tumble bullets then shoot a few ? IF anyone burnishes the barrel please pass on the procedure.
Never thought I'd quit using moly but I'm hearing too many good things about Boron Nitride.
Thanks
 
JRS,

I know cubic BN is different from hexagonal. I mentioned the cubic variant because I couldn't find how it is formed and it's not something you would want in a barrel.

Will,

For BN coating so far you can coat bullets like you do moly or Danzac. For coating a barrel I'm using low odor mineral spirits mixed with boron nitride. Mineral Spirits seems to carry particles better than alcohol. I'm thinking of adding graphite if my testing still shows you need more than a shot or two to settle the groups in. I've used the Lock-Ease method with naked and Moly coated bullets to good effect.

Even if you don't use BN use will want to consider Tungsten disulphide instead of moly
 
jo191145,

If you are interested, I have hBN in any quantity you want.

RickB,

The article you read refers to a 40oz plastic peanut butter container. It fits perfectly in the large Thumlers Tumbler. Actually, you can put 2 containers in at the same time. They hold a lot of bullets and shot. You want to keep the container about 3/4 full.
 

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