Hi Guys,,just wanted to share my Borescope Experience,,was cleaning with Jag,,patches,, nyion brush,,bought a Lyman borescope and felt sick to my stomach,,grooves loaded with hard carbon,,,tried Kroil and and a Little JB,,,Didn't touch it,,and I love Kroil,,seen it get lead out of old rimfires like a dream,,,searched and read and read and searched on here,,stopped after work at Advance Auto,,decided on Sea Foam Deep Creep it said it was OK for guns,,Im thrilled,,a Little JB and a Generous amount of this stuff and Holy Mud Slide,,,Hello CLEAN,,,lol,,you might not really want to see the inside of your barrel,,if you buy a borescope be prepared,,,WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANT BE UNSEEN,,,lol,,but it can probly be CLEANED
Borescope Shock
- Thread starter Sparky570
- Start date
Can you describe your steps, in more detail? Also powder used and round count when you found the baked on carbon. Thank you.
Someoldguy
My opinion on the subject of borescopes is that they are an invaluable tool for barrel inspection.
I hear many lament that they wish they'd never looked down the bore of a barrel, because the sight of imperfection destroyed the faith they had that the rifle was a worthy contender. I find this to be flawed thinking. If you inspect anything closely enough, you will find some excuse for poor performance, no matter how minor the flaw is provided an excuse is what one is looking for.
It doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to put you in a position to be better at one given time than the guy who finished second.
I hear many lament that they wish they'd never looked down the bore of a barrel, because the sight of imperfection destroyed the faith they had that the rifle was a worthy contender. I find this to be flawed thinking. If you inspect anything closely enough, you will find some excuse for poor performance, no matter how minor the flaw is provided an excuse is what one is looking for.
It doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to put you in a position to be better at one given time than the guy who finished second.
Recently purchased a Lyman Borescope. Pretty good unit for what you pay. Had the same reaction as most do the 1st time they look at the bores of their rifles.......
I've always "thought" I did a good job cleaning my (too) many guns.... untill you "scope one.
I'll get a can of CREEP and see if it works any better than some of the many high $$$ carbon removers I've purchased.
I've always "thought" I did a good job cleaning my (too) many guns.... untill you "scope one.
I'll get a can of CREEP and see if it works any better than some of the many high $$$ carbon removers I've purchased.
I also feel pain when seeing foreign black stuff inside my rifle barrels. Going for the best value with the least amount of effort, I use a nylon brush & common ordinary 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (rubbing alcohol) and synthetic motor oil following an over-night soak with squirted Gun Slick Foaming Bore Cleaner (butyl cellosolve and butyl carbitol); the sight of blue stuff oozing out of the barrel provides some sense of accomplishment. I suppose I could use automotive Iso- HEET + injector cleaner(warning : flammable) instead of the medical approved 91 percent rubbing alcohol.
Upon looking at the MSDS for "Sea Foam Deep Creep" what I see this stuff also contains hydrocarbons (oil) and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) but I might be missing something.
Upon occasion, when more black stuff attack is needed I use an abrasive like JB.
My cheap mixture quickly cleans off crudded up AR bolt carriers using a tooth brush and other black encrusted weapon inner workings. I view aerosols as unnecessary hazards both because or the explosive nature of the propellants and inhalation of tiny droplets - just slosh on the cheap stuff instead.
I really don't know what the black stuff is. Carbon is very stable and very difficult to dissolve, anything that would dissolve carbon would do a number on your rifle barrel. Lots of other stuff is found in smokeless powder and primers. Possibly the graphite, added to powder coatings (carbon) gets plastered then fused onto barrels. Is there any analysis of what actually comprises the black stuff found in rifle barrels - where does it come from? My guess is that various chemical solvents attack any metallic components from primers and possibly from powder coatings and additives and in that process loosen and soften the black fused on stuff that may or may not contain substantial amounts of carbon (an element) - enabling mechanical removal - JB & brushes. At one time, or possibly now calcium carbonate was added to smokeless powder to combat acidic deterioration and the calcium carbonate was blamed for crudding up inner workings.
In any event fouled up rifle barrels have created another marketing niche (always looking for the best solution).
Upon looking at the MSDS for "Sea Foam Deep Creep" what I see this stuff also contains hydrocarbons (oil) and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) but I might be missing something.
Upon occasion, when more black stuff attack is needed I use an abrasive like JB.
My cheap mixture quickly cleans off crudded up AR bolt carriers using a tooth brush and other black encrusted weapon inner workings. I view aerosols as unnecessary hazards both because or the explosive nature of the propellants and inhalation of tiny droplets - just slosh on the cheap stuff instead.
I really don't know what the black stuff is. Carbon is very stable and very difficult to dissolve, anything that would dissolve carbon would do a number on your rifle barrel. Lots of other stuff is found in smokeless powder and primers. Possibly the graphite, added to powder coatings (carbon) gets plastered then fused onto barrels. Is there any analysis of what actually comprises the black stuff found in rifle barrels - where does it come from? My guess is that various chemical solvents attack any metallic components from primers and possibly from powder coatings and additives and in that process loosen and soften the black fused on stuff that may or may not contain substantial amounts of carbon (an element) - enabling mechanical removal - JB & brushes. At one time, or possibly now calcium carbonate was added to smokeless powder to combat acidic deterioration and the calcium carbonate was blamed for crudding up inner workings.
In any event fouled up rifle barrels have created another marketing niche (always looking for the best solution).
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
you should really get some bronze brushes so this doesn't happen again.
mikeeg02
Michael Glantz
I think he's already heard that a few times from a fella I know. Lol.
I heard he bought some new brushes.
Your posting does not state how old >> read that "How many shots down the barrel", so we would have an idea of how much or how little of firecracking there is in there. If there is a fair amount of firecracking, as in for the first few inches there are places that look like alligator hide in there, you might want to consider the JB and Creep solution to be used EVERY time. Hard carbon is difficult to manage when it gets embedded in the firecracking. It can get out of control in a hurry.. Just my 2 cents..
That's exactly what I was wondering. I recently switched powders and bullets on a 6.5 wc cartridge. Went from Retumbo to N-570 and 140 hvld to 150 smk. At the time I switched, I had 720 rds thru a melonited Bartlein 3B, 8 twist 5 R. This barrel cleaned up easily and lands had moved .042", no sign of fire cracking via Hawkeye.
The first 50 rounds, with new components, were for a 400 yd ladder and seating depth test. Using Boretech carbon and copper cleaners with nylon brushes, it "appeared" to have cleaned up normally. WRONG, when I scoped it, I saw the worst hard carbon build up I've ever seen.
Three days of JB, Kroil and 6 bronze brushes, and I got it clean of carbon. It took several more days to smooth out the fire cracking, from throat to muzzle.
Finally got back to range to shoot 10 shot groups, 5 charges @ 400 and same five charges @ 600. I cleaned all loose carbon every ten shots and fired 2 foulers. Found the center of a nice node, single digits SD.
I get home and find the same baked on carbon as before and same method to partially restore barrel. I reverted to my previous Retumbo + 140 hvld. It will shoot around 30-35 rounds before it opens up, alright for hunting, but a PITA to control fire cracking. It's just a matter of time. Round count up to 940.
I'm going to try treating barrel with HBN and shooting only coated bullets, just hoping to seal up the barrel a bit. I do have another shouldered barrel ready to replace this one, if HBN doesn't help. I will at least have a forming barrel.
What I don't know really happened here. Did the burn temperature of the N-570 cause it to start? Was the barrel ready to die, anyway? I scoped this barrel after every cleaning and saw no gradual incline to fire cracking. I never ran over 1-2 shots before cooling to ambient temperature.
I apologise for derailing the OPs thread. When I get started, ?????????, can happen.
If you watch a barrel from brand new to junk, the first thing you see is how the barrel steel has a "colored / burnished" appearance to it, after a mere 100+ rounds on it. That is the beginnings of the onset of firecracking. Firecracking from that point is imminent. Once it sets in, very mild at first, so mild that the untrained eye may very well miss it, it is nonetheless there. I have seen it creep up slowly for a good while. I have also seen it run rampant thru a barrel. Evidently, it is very dependent on the grade or quality of the barrel steel in that particular barrel. I have had .260A.I.s last right at 2000 rounds and one lasted 1050 and it was really dead a little before that, however, I was unaware. That barrel had 1.) severe firecracking; 2.) lands that were split for a couple of inches along the top of the lands and 3.) actual pieces of the edge of the lands broken off in what appeard would have been chunks blown away! I have never seen anything like it>>>at 1050 rounds!! Had to be barrel steel.
I thought I was paying close attention, from A to Z, but you are most likely right on. I was rocking right along, til I started the N-570 use, so I thought it was the powder.
No chunks missing off lands, but edges are rough enough that it won't be long. I have always thought (and observed) that fire cracking showed up first in the throat and migrated down the barrel. Then, I observed what I would call "stem to stern" cracking in 50 rounds. May need a new prescription, haha
I certainly appreciate your synopsis and I'll try to be more alert on the new barrel when I get my new glasses. I kept good records on this barrel and I want to compare it to the new 3B, that was not nitrided.
No chunks missing off lands, but edges are rough enough that it won't be long. I have always thought (and observed) that fire cracking showed up first in the throat and migrated down the barrel. Then, I observed what I would call "stem to stern" cracking in 50 rounds. May need a new prescription, haha
I certainly appreciate your synopsis and I'll try to be more alert on the new barrel when I get my new glasses. I kept good records on this barrel and I want to compare it to the new 3B, that was not nitrided.
It appears that the best way to get the black stuff out is by using brushes and JB. The Bore Tech "carbon" and copper remover stuff has as a primary ingredient a chelating agent, stuff that binds with impurities making them easier to remove. Possibly, this is why Willie failed to get the black stuff out. Carbon is a real stubborn substance that resists chemicals (binding) and hangs around for almost forever. Nobody has yet to explain to me where the carbon would come from in a rifle barrel. Primers contain lead & other metals. Smokeless powder is nitrocellulose and possibly nitroglycerin with stuff to retard burn rate and stabilize (ignition products are almost all gaseous). A small amount of graphite, or carbon as added to retard static electricity and lubricate. Upon reading this stuff it seems like barrels are clogged up after a few shots with layers of tough clinging "carbon" and look like a dried up mud puddle during the first 10% of their expected life.
My rifle barrels are all 416 R stainless and always last throughout their expected life (.260 longer than 6.5-06). The barrels are well lapped and clean up easily with a combination of Gun Slick Foaming Bore Cleaner, isopropyl alcohol, synthetic motor oil, bronze & nylon brushes and occasional JB use. If I am careful about assembling ammo and pay attention to conditions I can usually get one hole 5 shot groups at 100 for most of the expected barrel life.
How clean is clean? Like a re-lap job after each use? I wish some chemical wizard would contribute some wisdom at this point.
My rifle barrels are all 416 R stainless and always last throughout their expected life (.260 longer than 6.5-06). The barrels are well lapped and clean up easily with a combination of Gun Slick Foaming Bore Cleaner, isopropyl alcohol, synthetic motor oil, bronze & nylon brushes and occasional JB use. If I am careful about assembling ammo and pay attention to conditions I can usually get one hole 5 shot groups at 100 for most of the expected barrel life.
How clean is clean? Like a re-lap job after each use? I wish some chemical wizard would contribute some wisdom at this point.
coldboreshot
Silver $$ Contributor
When all is said and done, your statement is the most important factor. When it starts losing accuracy, then consider a modified cleaning regiment or a barrel replacement (depending on how many existing rounds down that tube). Im not sure if that point was discussed. I enjoy reading threads like this because it always enforces my theory, " Borescopes and Chronographs should come with psychological disclaimers" !!
Not just "get 'em" Dusty......he needs to probably get ready to start thinking about using them!! Once in a while at least......
Still, though, this is an excellent post and the opposite of the usual we see. It always catches my attention when guys get on here and start raving about their new bore cleaner that in about 20 seconds of touching the bore leaves it spotless. No brushing, no scrubbing, no soak time, just slop some in the bore and immediately wipe it completely bare metal clean. Then you axe 'em, "what kinda bore scope you got???".............................and you hear those pesky crickets.
Cannot Lie,,used with a little JB,,,a well worn 30 cal bronze and a lot of Creep,,when I first ran Creep thru on a tight patch I noticed it was very very slick,,like no resistance once I had some in the barrel,,Im no expert and Im not telling anyone how to clean their barrel,,use your own discretion
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