Body die first?

[fguffey]

"No Turn" (Blue Box) Brass, which is .001 thinner than brown box Lapua brass, leaving .001 more space for a casing to "wander about."

You should be using Sierra bullets, when using Sierra bullets there is no demand on the reloader to do anything. The case can fit the chamber like a peanut, complete with hull fits in a violin case or a punch bowl.

F. Guffey

 

['Freak]

How much remaining clearance need be left between the chamber walls and the brass after subtracting offsets due any case wall thickness variations, case body to neck runout, and case body to projectile runout?

Thinkin’ with the bullet’s position centered by the close confines within the throat, that’ll shift any offset about the brass over nearer to the chamber wall. If this puts neck wall too close to chamber wall so that on firing and during the bullet’s release, neck wall contact with the chamber wall might occur too early on the too near side and result in a bind that could cause the projectile to enter the bore at best, a bit cockeyed?

 

[bigedp51]

On a full length resized cartridge the rear of the case is supported by the bolt face and in the front by the bullet in the throat of the chamber. The body and neck of the case does not touch the chamber walls, but when you pull the trigger the firing pin drives the case forward until the shoulder of the case contacts the chambers shoulder.

Therefore the case shoulder centers the case in the rear and the full length resized case has wiggle room for the bullet to be self aligning in the throat and bore. The military considers .003 runout and below to be match grade ammunition.

At 64 with chronologically gifted eyesight and drinking too much coffee runout isn't really my problem.

 

[fguffey]

On a full length resized cartridge the rear of the case is supported by the bolt face and in the front by the bullet in the throat of the chamber

Sounds great, but Mudduck did not identify the receiver he is using.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

Sounds great, but Mudduck did not identify the receiver he is using.

F. Guffey

So he has a muzzle loader and according to you should use Sierra bullets. :

Please tell us what you have added to this posting that brings us closer to what to size first? Or do we have to listen to how you invented headspace and datums?

Or are you off your meds or is your grandson posting under your screen name?

Please enlighten us oh mystic of the holy datum point. :

 

[M-61]

"No Turn" (Blue Box) Brass, which is .001 thinner than brown box Lapua brass, leaving .001 more space for a casing to "wander about."

You should be using Sierra bullets, when using Sierra bullets there is no demand on the reloader to do anything. The case can fit the chamber like a peanut, complete with hull fits in a violin case or a punch bowl.

F. Guffey

If there is a mental area deeper than "LOST", I am there.

 

[fguffey]

Sounds great, but Mudduck did not identify the receiver he is using.

Ed, you are the fan of the case fitting the chamber like a rat-t fits a violin case, that also applies to a punch bowl. and then you jump out into the passing lane and miss a gear with the firing pin striking the primer etc. etc. and the case fitting the chamber. All of that without knowing what chamber Mudduck is using.

Then you go from acting like an adult to acting like a child complete with tantrums. I have killer firing pins, my firing pins crush the primer before the case, powder and bullet know their little buddy, the primer has been crushed.

Then there is that bench rester thing, bench resters full length size and, and never does someone give the difference in dimensions between full length sizing and the length of the chamber.

Next? What receiver is Mudduck using?

F. Guffey

 

[CatShooter]

"No Turn" (Blue Box) Brass, which is .001 thinner than brown box Lapua brass, leaving .001 more space for a casing to "wander about."

You should be using Sierra bullets, when using Sierra bullets there is no demand on the reloader to do anything. The case can fit the chamber like a peanut, complete with hull fits in a violin case or a punch bowl.

F. Guffey

If there is a mental area deeper than "LOST", I am there.

You have to stand in line...

 

[fguffey]

If there is a mental area deeper than "LOST", I am there.

You should be using Sierra bullets, when using Sierra bullets there is no demand on the reloader to do anything. The case can fit the chamber like a peanut, complete with hull fits in a violin case or a punch bowl.

I am not responsible for those that can not keep up. According to Ed and Sierra there is no demand on a reloader to fit a case to the chamber. They claim the case can fit the chamber like a rat-T fits a violin case or a punch bowl. I believe that is the silliest thing I have ever read.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Cartfish, you have two standards, where is your pride and self respect. Ed. claimed the firing pin drives the case to the shoulder of the chamber and 'THEN! the primer fires.

F. Guffey

 

[mudduck]

Man i didn't this would turn to a heated debate. I am going to try both ways and see what works best for me. This is just a standerd Sammi chamber in 243 shilen barrel.

 

[fguffey]

Mudduck,

heated debate.

there is no debate, there is a question. What receiver are you using?

F. Guffey

 

[BoydAllen]

There is a simple answer to the OP. Buy a concentriciy gauge, try it both ways (body die first, body die second) measure the results.

Years ago, loading for a factory chambered .22-250 using a collet die in combination with a body die, my results, for that particular situation, were that neck sizing first gave less runout. Buy the gauge. Believe what it tells you. Your equipment may give different results than mine did.

 

[mudduck]

700

 

[bigedp51]

I am not responsible for those that can not keep up. According to Ed and Sierra there is no demand on a reloader to fit a case to the chamber. They claim the case can fit the chamber like a rat-T fits a violin case or a punch bowl.
I believe that is the silliest thing I have ever read.

F. Guffey

Dear fguffey

The silliest thing anyone reads in these forums are your postings, you should try reading more and posting less......much, much less.


Short Headspace on New Brass
by Germán A. Salazar

"I have very often found that unfired brass gives great accuracy despite the sloppy fit and often poor neck concentricity. I wish I could explain that, but I can't. Along those same lines, a world-class long range shooter whose opinion I value greatly once told me that the case should fit the chamber "like a rat turd in a violin case." I've never forgotten those words and they are one of the reasons that I full-length size every case, every time."

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2012/04/reloading-short-headspace-on-new-brass.html

 

[BoydAllen]

Ed,
Although I am a fan of FL sizing, or its two step equivalent. You seem to think that criteria for loading for bullet testing, using a number of different rifles should be universal to all reloading. I completely disagree, as I am sure would every single bolt action competition shooter that I know of. The fellow came up with a catchy phrase, but give it a rest. As universal advice for all that read these threads, it is not good. This is after all an accuracy web site.
Boyd

 

[bigedp51]

Ed,
Although I am a fan of FL sizing, or its two step equivalent. You seem to think that criteria for loading for bullet testing, using a number of different rifles should be universal to all reloading. I completely disagree, as I am sure would every single bolt action competition shooter that I know of. The fellow came up with a catchy phrase, but give it a rest. As universal advice for all that read these threads, it is not good. This is after all an accuracy web site.
Boyd

This website is called AccurateShooter.com and this forum is the Reloading Forum (all cailbers).

It is not "The Boyd Allen Soap Box Forum" or "Only Boyd Allen's opinions matter here forum" or "Boyd Allen speaks for everyone forum.

Get over yourself Boyd, there are many opinions here and your single opinion is just that, one persons opinion.

If what the Late Jim Hull of Sierra bullets said offends you, then get over it, it has been repeated by Germán A. Salazar and Kevin Thomas just to name two well known shooters.

And since you didn't work for Sierra bullets testing laboratory, the high opinion you have of yourself means absolutely nothing to me.

I will continue to voice my opinions and if you don't like them then don't read them.

Have a nice day

 

[Patch700]

...one man's violin case is another man's portable shaving kit... lol

Let's not take what someone states too literally and as gospel for every application.

 

[bigedp51]

...one man's violin case is another man's portable shaving kit... lol

Let's not take what someone states too literally and as gospel for every application.

Patch700

1. I did not bring up "the rat turd in the violin case" subject in this posting........fguffey did.......and Boyd Allen singled me out for his criticism for pointing out I didn't coin the phrase.
2. I did post "WHO" said it and "WHY".
3. And I "NEVER" said full length resizing fits every application or everyone needs, BUT I have said full length resizing fits my needs.
4. Both fguffey and Boyd Allen need to get over themselves and stop thinking the world revolves around them and everything they say.

This is "The Reloading Forum (all cailbers)" and all reloading methods have their advocates, and I WILL continue to voice my opinions, and I do not need Boyd Allen’s permission to do so.

Short Headspace on New Brass
by Germán A. Salazar

"I have very often found that unfired brass gives great accuracy despite the sloppy fit and often poor neck concentricity. I wish I could explain that, but I can't. Along those same lines, a world-class long range shooter whose opinion I value greatly once told me that the case should fit the chamber "like a rat turd in a violin case." I've never forgotten those words and they are one of the reasons that I full-length size every case, every time."

 

[Patch700]

I realize that Ed... I reiterate, a rat turd in a violin case should not be taken literally. . If it were meant to be taken literally then it could be said that we could do all our sizing with a die that both moves the shoulder back .100" and sizes the body. 020" from stem to stern... So long as that was enough to allow the case to roll around freely in the chamber lol.

Fortunately we don't operate like that now do we.. So for a gentleman to be claiming to have enough clearance so as to be akin to a rat turd in a violin case if not taken literally could very well mean .004" neck clearance, .004" heads pace , and .003" body clearance.

This for obvious reasons does not work in all applications as I'm sure you're well aware..

What in fact he may have meant was that any clearance was better than none with respect to how a piece of brass reacts to being fired in a consistent manner.

...or not...lol