I would like to congratulate you on that feat. Can you provide a copy of the results sheet showing your placing and that you were using a bipod to everyone else's rests?
bipod vs rest
- Thread starter kzin
- Start date
Hmmm. Well, if a bipod were more accurate then the best F-Open shooters in the world would be using them instead of rests.
swd
Silver $$ Contributor
So if he can't prove it it's not true?
F Open? F/TR? what kind of bipod?
I do nearly all my F/O shooting off a bipod these days. A great deal of this is down to my primary range being one in a steep valley with lack of vehicle access to many firing points. Believe me, the difference between carrying a SEB Neo and a modern bipod is noticeable on this ground.
A key factor is the development of VERY wide footprint bipods - 660mm (26-inches) or wider at low settings. The three I have in particular mind are the Tier-One 'Carbon', Dolphin Gun Co. 'AB', and The Shooting Shed 'Stotteben'. The SEB Joypod is also pretty wide and very stable and some UK F/O competitors use it locked-up (ie set it and shoot without using the joystick facility).
As to using a bipod off a bench, BR rules say a rest is required as I understand it. We do have people shoot BR off bipods in the UK and there have been some very impressive 'aggs' produced on occasions especially in 600 yard comps. The heavy Canadian Rempel is particularly usable in this role. There are problems with bipods in BR though that are not applicable to F-Class. For instance, a modern wide FTR type bipod often has a wider footprint than the bench width, so literally doesn't fit. Bipods don't suit concrete surfaces usually increasing the tendency to jump under recoil and/or move about requiring considerable re-aim for each shot and slowing the rate of fire down even when a piece of carpet or similar is placed on the bench-top. Finally the shooter often has to position him/herself behind the bench centreline not in the designed cut-out section at the rearside making for an unnatural / uncomfortable firing position. Nevertheless, some top GB FTR shooters I know though do all their barrel break-in / load development off the bench on bipods and seem to manage surprisingly well despite heavy loads with 185-200gn bullets.
As a long term FTR competitor who now mostly shoots 'Open', I really don't miss a rest when shooting off grass as I mostly do. When the weather is really bad at Diggle and we're driven to shooting off concrete in our bench equipped covered firing points, I revert to a wide forend and the SEB Mini-Rest. My heaviest recoiling / greatest torque cartridge is the 284 with a 180gn bullet at ~2,850 fps from an 8-twist barrel. A .300WSM shooting 230s at 3,000 fps plus MVs may be another matter entirely of course.
I reviewed the excellent Tier-One 'Carbon' here:
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2380
......... and I'll follow up with the AB and yet wider Stotteben models shortly. (Incidentally in the write-up, I said Steve Baardsen (Steveb on the Accurate Shooter forum and now owner/maker of Matrix Bullets) was successfully shooting a 7mm SAUM at Raton in the 2013 US Nationals / F-Class Worlds off a Rempel. Steve has corrected me since - it was a .300 SAUM shooting 210s, more impressive still.)
A key factor is the development of VERY wide footprint bipods - 660mm (26-inches) or wider at low settings. The three I have in particular mind are the Tier-One 'Carbon', Dolphin Gun Co. 'AB', and The Shooting Shed 'Stotteben'. The SEB Joypod is also pretty wide and very stable and some UK F/O competitors use it locked-up (ie set it and shoot without using the joystick facility).
As to using a bipod off a bench, BR rules say a rest is required as I understand it. We do have people shoot BR off bipods in the UK and there have been some very impressive 'aggs' produced on occasions especially in 600 yard comps. The heavy Canadian Rempel is particularly usable in this role. There are problems with bipods in BR though that are not applicable to F-Class. For instance, a modern wide FTR type bipod often has a wider footprint than the bench width, so literally doesn't fit. Bipods don't suit concrete surfaces usually increasing the tendency to jump under recoil and/or move about requiring considerable re-aim for each shot and slowing the rate of fire down even when a piece of carpet or similar is placed on the bench-top. Finally the shooter often has to position him/herself behind the bench centreline not in the designed cut-out section at the rearside making for an unnatural / uncomfortable firing position. Nevertheless, some top GB FTR shooters I know though do all their barrel break-in / load development off the bench on bipods and seem to manage surprisingly well despite heavy loads with 185-200gn bullets.
As a long term FTR competitor who now mostly shoots 'Open', I really don't miss a rest when shooting off grass as I mostly do. When the weather is really bad at Diggle and we're driven to shooting off concrete in our bench equipped covered firing points, I revert to a wide forend and the SEB Mini-Rest. My heaviest recoiling / greatest torque cartridge is the 284 with a 180gn bullet at ~2,850 fps from an 8-twist barrel. A .300WSM shooting 230s at 3,000 fps plus MVs may be another matter entirely of course.
I reviewed the excellent Tier-One 'Carbon' here:
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2380
......... and I'll follow up with the AB and yet wider Stotteben models shortly. (Incidentally in the write-up, I said Steve Baardsen (Steveb on the Accurate Shooter forum and now owner/maker of Matrix Bullets) was successfully shooting a 7mm SAUM at Raton in the 2013 US Nationals / F-Class Worlds off a Rempel. Steve has corrected me since - it was a .300 SAUM shooting 210s, more impressive still.)
dcali
Bullet Maker
Guys, there are a lot of people on this board, myself included who have beat open shooters while shooting tr. in fact, it happens pretty much every match. What does not often happen (I can’t recall witnessing it in person ever) is for a tr shooter (or bipod equipped open shooter) to beat *all* the open shooters.
This is common sense to anyone who’s shot even a couple matches. The rest helps. Maybe not as much as the caliber choice, but you can bet your ass that if tr allowed a rest, people would switch and the winning scores would inch up a little. But just a little.
This is common sense to anyone who’s shot even a couple matches. The rest helps. Maybe not as much as the caliber choice, but you can bet your ass that if tr allowed a rest, people would switch and the winning scores would inch up a little. But just a little.
Medic505
Gold $$ Contributor
There is a ton of truth in this post. I do think scores would inch up, but not far. There's not much room left to go upwards. When I started shooting TR, a 570 something would, most of the time, win a match. 570 something now, well not so good. It's pretty amazing how far we have came as shooters. Also pretty amazing how equipment has evolved. If an average shooter could have had the equipment we use today in, say 2008, it wouldn't have been a contest.
I understand. No where was that a question.
dragman
Site $$ Sponsor
LOL, haven't been called out in a while. The online doesn't go back that far, but I was shooting my BAT 284 off of a Sinclair tactical bipod.
*I was shooting Ridgway VBR (which I still hold the heavy gun record for)
*I am sure there are a few guys on here that can vouch that it actually happened.
*I was shooting Ridgway VBR (which I still hold the heavy gun record for)
*I am sure there are a few guys on here that can vouch that it actually happened.
I have been shooting with dragman for 8yrs, and I have witness some very good score shot by him while using a bipod or a rest. One thing I have never seem him shoot the same rifle, always a different rifle and cal. Jim
I've seen lots of F-Open shooters using bipods, and a number of them winning. Places are shown on the results shoot, but I've never seen it listed on the results sheet which F-Open shooters used a bipod.
Asking to see bipod use on a results sheet demonstrates considerable ignorance of F-Class. The type of rest or bipod is not listed there.
I'm not sure of all the rules of the various BR disciplines, but friends and I have shot various BR matches with bipods, and no one ever said a word about it. Though we've only won a handful. No complaints though.
You seem to lack understanding that I made a sarcastic comment.
Interesting.
Any feel about where exactly the improvement come from?
vertical vs windage?
recoil management?
easier aiming?
I've found the Sinclair rider a major improvement over just putting the foreend in a bag
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