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Best Stock Grip For Shooting Off Bench (not free recoil)?

As a shooter firing off a bench with trigger hand wrapped around gun, which kind of grip lends itself to superior control of the gun and trigger (enhancing accuracy) when aiming/firing? A vertical type grip in a stock (i.e., McMillan A-5) or a pistol grip, like that found in the AR-15? Or is it more of just what feels best to the individual shooter?

I am trying to decide for an action I have, to use a vertical style stock or a chassis with pistol grip.

Phil
 
I can only share personal preferences and experiences, and of course everyone is quite different. Firstly I do not like a conventional pistol grip, or even one with a thumbhole as these do not provide a comfortable spot to rest the thumb. With a vertical pistol grip such as a Manners T4A I can rest it well on top, plus the larger grip fits my hand better. For Fclass I also like a vertical grip, like the AR, whereby I can comfortably wrap my thumb. So for me its much about thumb placement.
 
Free recoil or not; I prefer to use my thumb (trigger hand) to hold light pressure downward near the action tang to assist the stock in riding the rear bag.

My biggest problem is cheek pressure. When I forget to be consistent with my cheek pressure my groups really open up at long range.
 
Free recoil or not; I prefer to use my thumb (trigger hand) to hold light pressure downward near the action tang to assist the stock in riding the rear bag.

My biggest problem is cheek pressure. When I forget to be consistent with my cheek pressure my groups really open up at long range.

A "trick" I read that really helped my consistency. With no cheek pressure set the reticle below the bullseye on something like the 8 or 9 ring line. Then press down with cheek to get on target. In this way you will apply a consistent cheek pressure shot to shot.
 
I am the OP, but sort of feel the AR style works best for me. Even on a more vertical style grip on a tactical style stock, my trigger finger is not straight back from the trigger face. On the tactical stock, my finger is still pulling back and UP, whereas on the AR, the finger is parallel with the rifle long axis. Also, the AR grip allows me to change out grips easily to find one that suits my hand. Unless I have a variety of Manners, McMillan, H-S Precision, and other stocks hanging around, I can't compare. I can try out grips for an AR under a glass counter at a gun shop.

On my AR, I use the Sierra Precision grip. As you can see below, it is fat, for right hand use only, and has a thumb rest. It is not soft and squishy. It fills my medium-large hand well, and helps position the trigger further away from my hand (too close on AR with stock grip). - Phil

3941287_02_sierra_precision_spr_grip__640.jpg
 
I don't shoot benchrest, but an ar style grip lends itself to pulling the trigger with your first digit joint and not the pad of the finger. I need a thick palm swell, so A2-5 type works here.
I recently got a T6A Manners, even though it has the swell, I don't like it as much as a T4A, wasn't till this am that I noticed while it's sitting in the rack that the trigger pull is 1/2" shorter, makes a big diff.
 
As a shooter firing off a bench with trigger hand wrapped around gun, which kind of grip lends itself to superior control of the gun and trigger (enhancing accuracy) when aiming/firing? A vertical type grip in a stock (i.e., McMillan A-5) or a pistol grip, like that found in the AR-15? Or is it more of just what feels best to the individual shooter?

I am trying to decide for an action I have, to use a vertical style stock or a chassis with pistol grip.

Phil
Will you be shooting off a front and rear bag? For me a rifle is more difficult to control,the more rounded the forearm.. Rounded on the edge such as a hunter benchrest stock would work better and have a somewhat flat on the bottom of the forearm.
 
I don't shoot benchrest, but an ar style grip lends itself to pulling the trigger with your first digit joint and not the pad of the finger. I need a thick palm swell, so A2-5 type works here.
I recently got a T6A Manners, even though it has the swell, I don't like it as much as a T4A, wasn't till this am that I noticed while it's sitting in the rack that the trigger pull is 1/2" shorter, makes a big diff.

One reason I got the Sierra Precision grip. It is fatter and puts my trigger finger further back from the too-close trigger with standard grip.

Will you be shooting off a front and rear bag? For me a rifle is more difficult to control,the more rounded the forearm.. Rounded on the edge such as a hunter benchrest stock would work better and have a somewhat flat on the bottom of the forearm.

I use a coaxial front rest and Edgewood bag with Sinclair heavy rear bag for load development. For the rounded AR forearm I have, I use a bag 3" wide bag "sled", and another device for the standard stock that is V shaped and rides in a rear bag. When not doing load development, I shoot mostly off a 6" - 9" bipod and light rear bag. With a bipod, the front stock shape does not much matter that I can see. - Phil
 
qpm5jl.jpg
The first time I shot a Tikka Master Sporter, I liked it but it needed a little modification for my larger hands. I got pretty close on my first try with a good palm swell. Needs a little more tweaking. Adding a few more degrees to the angle of the grip on the next one. The channel cut for the index/trigger finger puts it in the right spot. The only problem is that it takes some time. Carve a little, grip to test, carve a little more, etc., etc.
 
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Thanks. I like wood. Can't do anything that with fiberglass. Just call me a tree hugger.:cool:
 
I find that one of the main problems that shooters have when shooting off of the bench with ARs is that they work from the grip forward, rather than establishing finger position first. The most important thing is that the direction of trigger pull be correct, not that the trigger hand be comfortable.

In short range benchrest, thumb hole stocks are long out of style, primarily because if you have your whole hand in contact with them, you will tend to torque the rifle as you pull the trigger. For this reason, for rifles that are held, because of stock design, rifle balance, recoil, and other factors, I suggest that shooters apply rearward pressure with the second and possibly third finger of their trigger hand, and not the little finger.

On cheek pressure, for shooting from the bench, I like to use rings that are tall enough so that I can keep my face off of the stock as I aim and fire.

The other issue that is commonly done incorrectly is to have the front bag too far forward on the forend, letting the bag position be determined by a rests forend stop, and not experimenting with position over a wide range. If you are holding a rifle you do not really need to be concerned with how it balances on the bags to the degree that is required if you are shooting free.

The same thing that I wrote about ARs applies to vertical grips as well.

Some time ago, a friend was shooting a tactical stocked custom rifle and not seeing the results that he wanted. I moved the front bag back to the middle of the forend, lowered his cheek piece until he only had very light contact with it, and had him only use his second and third fingers on the grip, positioning his hand so that he was pulling the trigger straight back with the middle of the first pad of his indexfinger. I cautioned him not to push down with his thumb, and to pull the rifle into his shoulder with moderate, and consistent pressure. His groups shrank to half of what they had been.

I find this sort of effect from making changes in how a rifle is supported and held to be quite common. Shooters who have years of experience tend to think that they know how to shoot, and that all that they need to do is try harder. In many if not most cases, they need to "try different".

Doing something wrong for a long time tends to impede their progress, and even after I have helped them improve their results, I find it very common that they fall back into their old habits, when observing from a distance during subsequent range sessions. For this reason I think that when one finds a method that works better, that shooters take notes, and review them from time to time.

In my experience, most rifles produce better results when they are held, unless they are specifically designed for shooting free, and the bags and rest that are used are of that type as well.
 
Thanks. I like wood. Can't do anything that with fiberglass. Just call me a tree hugger.:cool:
I was a woodworker for 12 years too and appreciate beautiful wood also, but I can't eat a meal anymore w/o a shirt change and surely wouldn't take that rifle to a range.
It's composite's for me, where a sharpie can mask the scratches, lol
 
I find that one of the main problems that shooters have when shooting off of the bench with ARs is that they work from the grip forward, rather than establishing finger position first. The most important thing is that the direction of trigger pull be correct, not that the trigger hand be comfortable.

In short range benchrest, thumb hole stocks are long out of style, primarily because if you have your whole hand in contact with them, you will tend to torque the rifle as you pull the trigger. For this reason, for rifles that are held, because of stock design, rifle balance, recoil, and other factors, I suggest that shooters apply rearward pressure with the second and possibly third finger of their trigger hand, and not the little finger.

On cheek pressure, for shooting from the bench, I like to use rings that are tall enough so that I can keep my face off of the stock as I aim and fire.

The other issue that is commonly done incorrectly is to have the front bag too far forward on the forend, letting the bag position be determined by a rests forend stop, and not experimenting with position over a wide range. If you are holding a rifle you do not really need to be concerned with how it balances on the bags to the degree that is required if you are shooting free.

The same thing that I wrote about ARs applies to vertical grips as well.

Some time ago, a friend was shooting a tactical stocked custom rifle and not seeing the results that he wanted. I moved the front bag back to the middle of the forend, lowered his cheek piece until he only had very light contact with it, and had him only use his second and third fingers on the grip, positioning his hand so that he was pulling the trigger straight back with the middle of the first pad of his indexfinger. I cautioned him not to push down with his thumb, and to pull the rifle into his shoulder with moderate, and consistent pressure. His groups shrank to half of what they had been.

I find this sort of effect from making changes in how a rifle is supported and held to be quite common. Shooters who have years of experience tend to think that they know how to shoot, and that all that they need to do is try harder. In many if not most cases, they need to "try different".

Doing something wrong for a long time tends to impede their progress, and even after I have helped them improve their results, I find it very common that they fall back into their old habits, when observing from a distance during subsequent range sessions. For this reason I think that when one finds a method that works better, that shooters take notes, and review them from time to time.

In my experience, most rifles produce better results when they are held, unless they are specifically designed for shooting free, and the bags and rest that are used are of that type as well.


Thanks so much Boyd. This is true wisdom.
 
When I shoot without free recoil I want to be able to pull the butt of the stock straight into my shoulder. That means, for the type of shooting that appears to interest, the straight grip (McMillan A5) contributes the most advantage for pulling the rifle butt straight back.
That said, the risks involved in that hold on the stock include the fact that along with the force of pulling the stock straight back there is a natural tendency to tighten right hand grip on the rifle while simultaneously pulling back. That can induce cant ... not a good thing.
 
When I shoot without free recoil I want to be able to pull the butt of the stock straight into my shoulder. That means, for the type of shooting that appears to interest, the straight grip (McMillan A5) contributes the most advantage for pulling the rifle butt straight back.
That said, the risks involved in that hold on the stock include the fact that along with the force of pulling the stock straight back there is a natural tendency to tighten right hand grip on the rifle while simultaneously pulling back. That can induce cant ... not a good thing.
Shoulder hold is the best . Larry
 
I find that one of the main problems that shooters have when shooting off of the bench with ARs is that they work from the grip forward, rather than establishing finger position first. The most important thing is that the direction of trigger pull be correct, not that the trigger hand be comfortable.

In short range benchrest, thumb hole stocks are long out of style, primarily because if you have your whole hand in contact with them, you will tend to torque the rifle as you pull the trigger. For this reason, for rifles that are held, because of stock design, rifle balance, recoil, and other factors, I suggest that shooters apply rearward pressure with the second and possibly third finger of their trigger hand, and not the little finger.

On cheek pressure, for shooting from the bench, I like to use rings that are tall enough so that I can keep my face off of the stock as I aim and fire.

The other issue that is commonly done incorrectly is to have the front bag too far forward on the forend, letting the bag position be determined by a rests forend stop, and not experimenting with position over a wide range. If you are holding a rifle you do not really need to be concerned with how it balances on the bags to the degree that is required if you are shooting free.

The same thing that I wrote about ARs applies to vertical grips as well.

Some time ago, a friend was shooting a tactical stocked custom rifle and not seeing the results that he wanted. I moved the front bag back to the middle of the forend, lowered his cheek piece until he only had very light contact with it, and had him only use his second and third fingers on the grip, positioning his hand so that he was pulling the trigger straight back with the middle of the first pad of his index finger. I cautioned him not to push down with his thumb, and to pull the rifle into his shoulder with moderate, and consistent pressure. His groups shrank to half of what they had been.

I find this sort of effect from making changes in how a rifle is supported and held to be quite common. Shooters who have years of experience tend to think that they know how to shoot, and that all that they need to do is try harder. In many if not most cases, they need to "try different".

Doing something wrong for a long time tends to impede their progress, and even after I have helped them improve their results, I find it very common that they fall back into their old habits, when observing from a distance during subsequent range sessions. For this reason I think that when one finds a method that works better, that shooters take notes, and review them from time to time.

In my experience, most rifles produce better results when they are held, unless they are specifically designed for shooting free, and the bags and rest that are used are of that type as well.

So, properly position the trigger finger and ideally, the grip should fall right into the hand without movement of finger, correct?

You mean to pull the rifle rearward with 2nd and 3rd finger. Not disagreeing, but why not little finger too?

Your comments on cheek pressure really surprises me. Is this because you feel having your cheek on the stock is a detriment to accuracy?

Some have said that ARs shoot best with the front rest or bag located as close the breech end of the barrel as possible. I have not found that to be the case, mine shooting well regardless of position, but will keep experimenting.

Good stuff...can't wait to see how it works out at the range.

Phil
 

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