Best Powder Measure for Varget (Limited Choices)

[Leaddog]

Having used many methods and equipment over the years, I settled on what I believe the perfect solution. I also use Varget.

I throw my charge with a Redding powder measure and trickle up using the Omega and weighing on a Sartorius GD503. The GD503 is a laboratory quality scale weighing to .005 of a grain. One kernel of Varget weighs .020. The scale uses magnetic force restoration technology and not strain gauge like the lesser quality scales. I get zero drift. No more frustration with constantly rezeroing.

There are some YouTube videos out there if you want to check it out.

 

[Laurie]

Out of interest, there is a British device called the TARGETMASTER, a battery powered trickler used in conjunction with beam scales and where the powder supply is cut off by the scales beam breaking a light-beam. It's not a complete charge dispensing device, instead a top-up for the last 0.5-1.0gn weight.

It's made by a guy called Allan Edwards in the south of England. he can't sell them to US customers because of product liability issues, but was talking about working with a US collaborator, or licensing the device for American production.

His website is:

http://www.targetmasteruk.com/

It really does work. I reviewed it for the April 2011 issue of TargetShooter online magazine

http://www.targetshooteronline.com/

(January 2012 issue just out and available as a free download)

and here are the results I got for the same powders as tried on mechanical measures in conjunction with my RCBS 10-10 scales. You don't need a powder thrower with this device - the Lee Powder Measure cup type dippers work fine.

Table 2
TARGETMASTER Results (25 Charges of each powder and weighed on Acculab VIC123)

Powder Target Weight Average Weight Extreme Spread S.D.
Hodgdon VarGet 52.0gn 52.02gn 0.28gn (51.84 – 52.12gn) 0.075gn
Viht N140 51.5gn 51.55gn 0.22gn (51.44 – 51.66gn) 0.083gn
Hodgdon H100V 52.2gn 52.24gn 0.16gn (52.16 – 52.32gn) 0.05gn
IMR-4064 49.5gn 49.6gn 0.24gn (49.54 – 45.78gn) 0.065gn
Alliant Re15 25.2gn 25.24gn 0.14gn (25.16 – 25.3gn) 0.039gn


(25.2gn Re15 was my long-range .223 Rem / 90 VLD F/TR load that needed very small charge weight variations for good results.)

All charges were weighed again on the Acculab scales. Notice though, that yet again VarGet gives the poorest results, ie largest spread, slightly worse than good old 'log' IMR-4064 even!

 

[bozo699]

Laurie,
I talked with Allan, he actually has a few out over here, New York area I believe but it was difficult to get them here, he was very pleasant to talk to and is trying to work a angle to get them here as you mentioned. I am glad your results were spot on with his claims, actually yours are even better. I am going to try to perfect my methods today if it works out to and hope I can do as well as you did but my work will be cut out for me as those are very good #'s, even the Varget isn't bad. I am going to read your write up now, have a great day and thanks.
Wayne.

Just got done reading Laurie's article in Target Shooter and it was a good read, thanks Laurie, Here's a link that might take you there directly so you don't have to search the past issues.
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1ro0k/TargetShooterApril20/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A//www.yudu.com/item/details/312065/Target-Shooter-April-2011

Then type in page 58 or courser to page 58, Enjoy

 

[6BRinNZ]

I use the target master and I am quite happy with it. I shoot out to 1000yards with a 6BR (F-Open) and I am pretty happy with the load consistency. I use varget.

It has sped up my reloading somewhat and even when the light sensor has stopped the trickler, you can still push the button on top to trickle in a single kernel if needed (not sure if this was mentioned in the article).

I initially combined the target master with a scott parker tuned redding scale (The scale is amazingly sensitive) but I hate the redding scale (features of - not what Scott did) so i have gone back to my rcbs 10-10. Going forward I will get my 10-10 tuned up and i will set the target master to "turn off" a fraction low, then i will use the target master button to drop in the last kernel or two. I am pretty confident with a sparker tuned scale this will be accurate to the kernel, while probably not as fast as a satorious Gd503 with an omega I suspect it will be as precise....so far as varget is concerned.

From what I can tell the satorius gd503 with an omega trickler is nirvana, but the targetmaster with a good beam scale is the best price to accuracy/efficiency ratio that I have used so far.

 

[bozo699]

I use the target master and I am quite happy with it. I shoot out to 1000yards with a 6BR (F-Open) and I am pretty happy with the load consistency. I use varget.

It has sped up my reloading somewhat and even when the light sensor has stopped the trickler, you can still push the button on top to trickle in a single kernel if needed (not sure if this was mentioned in the article).

I initially combined the target master with a scott parker tuned redding scale (The scale is amazingly sensitive) but I hate the redding scale (features of - not what Scott did) so i have gone back to my rcbs 10-10. Going forward I will get my 10-10 tuned up and i will set the target master to "turn off" a fraction low, then i will use the target master button to drop in the last kernel or two. I am pretty confident with a sparker tuned scale this will be accurate to the kernel, while probably not as fast as a satorious Gd503 with an omega I suspect it will be as precise....so far as varget is concerned.

From what I can tell the satorius gd503 with an omega trickler is nirvana, but the targetmaster with a good beam scale is the best price to accuracy/efficiency ratio that I have used so far.

Wayne,
How long have you had the Targetmaster now? I think you and I discussed the targetmaster once before, I love tools and especially good ones that work, I have the Omega trickler, they can be a PITA to get going but they will do as advertized,...one kernel at a time. I guess I will just have to find a way to get me the Target master , I don't think I can use it on my 304 RCBS but I have a tuned 1010, I know it will work with it. hope to hear from you later.
Wayne.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Us boys and our toys!

 

[bozo699]

Us boys and our toys!

It's ridiculous isn't it?

 

[6BRinNZ]

Us boys and our toys!

I will try pretty much anything to make reloading less time consuming and painful
A satorius GD503 is definitely on the cards...the exchange rate puts it right up there cost wise....ouch

I use the target master and I am quite happy with it. I shoot out to 1000yards with a 6BR (F-Open) and I am pretty happy with the load consistency. I use varget.

It has sped up my reloading somewhat and even when the light sensor has stopped the trickler, you can still push the button on top to trickle in a single kernel if needed (not sure if this was mentioned in the article).

I initially combined the target master with a scott parker tuned redding scale (The scale is amazingly sensitive) but I hate the redding scale (features of - not what Scott did) so i have gone back to my rcbs 10-10. Going forward I will get my 10-10 tuned up and i will set the target master to "turn off" a fraction low, then i will use the target master button to drop in the last kernel or two. I am pretty confident with a sparker tuned scale this will be accurate to the kernel, while probably not as fast as a satorious Gd503 with an omega I suspect it will be as precise....so far as varget is concerned.

From what I can tell the satorius gd503 with an omega trickler is nirvana, but the targetmaster with a good beam scale is the best price to accuracy/efficiency ratio that I have used so far.

Wayne,
How long have you had the Targetmaster now? I think you and I discussed the targetmaster once before, I love tools and especially good ones that work, I have the Omega trickler, they can be a PITA to get going but they will do as advertized,...one kernel at a time. I guess I will just have to find a way to get me the Target master , I don't think I can use it on my 304 RCBS but I have a tuned 1010, I know it will work with it. hope to hear from you later.
Wayne.

Hmm - had it maybe 4 months now. Its definitely a no brainer to use. You could probably use it to trickle real slow but I set it as fast as it can go and use the button to drop in the last little bit...keeps things fast but accurate. I don't leave my scales setup all the time so I have figured out how to adjust the target master on the fly so that I don't lose more time getting it set "just right".

As Laurie alluded to there is "a way" (you get a feel for the amount of beam swing vs the trickle rate) of using it that keeps it efficient, once I get on a roll with it, a pretty good percentage of the time I don't have to drop in that extra kernel...it is already on the money.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks Wayne.
Wayne.

 

[dennisinaz]

Just as an aside, I sent my Harrells back last year because it was ocassionally hanging up. Lynwood called me on thre phone, and asked what powder am I using. I told him mostly H4198 and Varget. He said Varget was the worst powder I could run thru the measure because it does not meter well.

Tell him to try 4064 and get back to you!!

VarGet is bad though. I always try and find a ball powder or very fine rat-turd powder before switching to VarGet et al.

I discovered TAC this way. It has become the most versatile powder I have at my disposal for other than magnum use. I use it in .222, .223, .308, 30-06 and a couple of other odd-balls. Varget has its place but I have found substitutes.

I do not believe that there is a measure out there that can do what you want with Varget.

 

[Rustystud]

Tou might look at the "Quick Measure".

http://quick-measure.com/progadapter.htm

Nat Lambeth

 

[in2deep]

I second the Quick-Measure.

It still chokes on Varget sometimes but a little less than the rest on average which is all you can ask for with the big stick powder. Plus you can throw with "one hand" into the pan since there is no lever to pull and it speeds up the process a bit and is handy.

 

[bozo699]

I third the quick measurer, I forgot I even owned one, there made about 140 miles north of me in Spokane Washington, they can be very frustrating to setup but once set there very accurate, I used it for a while back in 04 or 05 while running a .222 Remington, then switched to long range shooting and forgot all about it until Nat's post, I will dig it out and play with it some this afternoon with some N-133 and some Varget, I am getting better throwing n-133 with my Harrell's but I will give this one a whirl and report back this evening.
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

Okay, I missed yesterday so I am back today and I had some time this evening so I set the (JDS) Quick measure up this evening and I set my Harrell's premium powder measure and to be as close to scales as many use I chose my RCBS 750 digital scales instead of the vic123 as most don't have scales that read to .00 or .000 the rcbs scales read to +/- .1 I started off throwing about 10 charges with the Harrell's to settle the powder and did the same with the quick measure, results were as follows,...

Harrels - 50.3 clicks of H322
First try Second try
#1-29.9 29.7
#2-29.9 29.9
#3-29.5 29.7
#4-29.9 29.8
#5-30.1 29.8
#6-29.9 29.9
#7-29.9 29.8
#8-29.8 29.9
#9-29.7 29.6
Low29.5 Low 29.6
H-30.1 H 29.9
ES=.6 ES .3

Varget 52.1 clicks
#1-29.8 29.9
#2-29.9 29.9
#3-30.0 29.8
#4-29.8 29.8
#5-30.1 29.8
#6-30.0 29.9
#7-29.7 29.8
#8-30.1 29.8
#9-29.9 30.1
#10-29.9 30.1
Low 29.7 Low 29.8
High 30.1 High 30.1
ES .4 ES .3
Quick Measure, adjusted according to instructions (very close) H-322

#1-29.6 29.8
#2-30.1 29.7
#3-30.0 30.0
#4-29.5 30.0
#5-29.9 29.7
#6-30.2 29.9
#7-30.1 29.6
#8-29.8 29.6
#9-30.1 29.9
#10-30.2 29.8
Low 29.5 Low 29.6
High 30.2 High 30.0
ES .7 ES .4

Quick Measure w/Varget
#1-29.1 29.4
#2-29.5 29.1
#3-29.5 29.3
#4-29.1 29.3
#5-29.5 29.4
#6-29.3 29.1
#7-29.1 29.3
#8-29.4 29.3
#9-29.1 29.2
#10-29.1 29.5
Low 29.1 Low 29.1
High 29.5 High 29.5
ES=4 ES=4

As you can see the two are real close and as I used them I got a little better, some people can throw much better then I do but this is what I came up with with a honest unbiased try, I think the Harrell's was a little better in the consistent accuracy department by maybe just a little but the Quick Measure was much quicker, by a lottttt! so there you have it, I am sure both of them would be .1 or better with ball powder, I may try that tomorrow but I am headed to bed and besides the thread was about Varget and I did that.
Wayne.