Best OAL length for accuracy in the 6.5 Creedmoor please.

[VaniB]

What is the OAL length of the cartridge that you have used in attaining good accuracy?

2 years of planning and fussing and my 6.5 Creed is FINALLY DONE! I'm ready to load up my first cartridges. The only bullets I will be using are what I have on hand; Berger 130VLD and 140 VLD, and Hornady 123 Amax and 140 Amax. Powder is H4350, with BR2 or CCI 200 primers. (couldn't find Federal 210M) It's got a standard length freebore.

 

[jamesh]

For Hornady 140 Amax my OAL to tip is 2.810. Berger 140 Hybrids seating die set .055" deeper, not sure what that makes the OAL.
I use BR2 primers and H4350

James

 

[dkhunt14]

I think every gunsmith uses different freebores. I don't think you can use anybody elses because you don't know what theirs is. Also every barrel is different and what one likes yours might not. You are going to have to test to find what it likes. The question I would ask is are you shooting them in or out and what bullet. It would give you some places to start. Matt

 

[22BRGUY]

With all of my rifles and bullet combos, the first thing I do is to make a dummy round (no powder or primer) for each bullet. I do that by cutting the case necks lengthways on each side with a dremel tool. Then I just lightly seat the bullet in the case mouth with my fingers. Then I gently chamber the round in the rifle a slowly close and the open the bolt. This gives me a dummy round that I am able to find the measurement on the ogive so I know where touching the lands is. From there I can test various lengths to find out what the rifle wants for that load and bullet. Hope this helps if you didn't already know .

 

[VaniB]

Jamesh,

Yep, that 2.810" with the 140Amax and 41.7 to 42.0 grains of H4350 is the poster-child round for the Creedmoor. Your confirmation adds to that consensus, and that will be my first test batch. The Berger 130 and 140's are less clear. It seems Berger VLD's prefer to be up close or in the lands in many rifles, but one gentleman here in the archives mentioned that seating the 140's at .030" off the lands was OK, but that seating at .050 was even better. (was that you with the surgeon scalpel?) I'm not sure I understand what you mean here today though when you said that you had your seater set .055" deeper then the 140 Amax at 2.810" length. (??) You're not saying 2.810" minus .055" = 2.755" OAL cartridge length with Berger 140's, are you?


22BRguy,
I use to do it your way (yes, with the spliced case necks and all) because I could save a few bucks not buying an AOL gage while also enjoying myself out in the garage doing the arts and crafts thing. Do yourself a favor and buy a Hornady Lock&Load OAL gage. You'll never look back, but instead be sorry that you didn't buy it sooner.

dkhunt,
The reason why I mentioned "it's got standard length freebore" is so that if you were a 6.5 Creedmoor owner, you would know that this means a standard SAAMI .200" freebore.
All else you explained is pretty preliminary beginner stuff 101. Thanks.

 

[jamesh]

What I meant by the different seating depths is that I have an OAL recorded for the 140 Amax but not for the 140 Hybrid however the setting on my bullet seating die is .055" lower for the 140 Hybrids than the setting I use for the 140 Amax. Because of the different shape of the bullets the distance from tip of the bullet to where the seating stem contacts the bullet will be different so one cannot just subtract the difference to come up with the new OAL.
FYI the lead on my reamer is .200" just like the SAAMI. spec.

James

 

[VaniB]

What I meant by the different seating depths is that I have an OAL recorded for the 140 Amax but not for the 140 Hybrid ......

James

Well I have a simple solution to that; go load one up cartridge with a Berger 140, put a caliper on it, and then report back to me what the OAL measurement is. LOL I'm kidding of course. I'll simply load up a a few Bergers at varying distances off of the lands and see if I can make heads or tales of which direction to head next.

 

[masterblaster1]

Can I seat a 140 amax for a berger cut chamber? the OAL looks to be 2.692 so I would have to load them deep to 2.677 or shorter. Is this a pressure problem or will I run into other issue?

 

[DHD]

I've got a pair of them that were cut with that freebore. I started out with a box mag in my son's rifle, but mine was built for a DBM (I have long since converted my son's rifle to DBM). Both rifles have shot Berger VLD's best jammed. I have had some very good groups jumping 140 Hybrid's .035" recently, but that is still a long OAL. I removed the spacer from the front of the AICS magazines because I need that space.

I have shot 140 Amax's in these rifles, but the Berger's shoot better, so I don't waste barrel life anymore shooting anything but the Berger's.

I can measure some rounds if you like, but keep in mind both of these barrels have about a 1000 rounds through them and the Creedmoor WILL burn some steel......

If I were starting a new barrel, I would look hard at a 140 VLD at +.012"ish, 41.5 H4350 (I am well north of that figure for both of mine), and the BR2's (I prefer Wolf LRM but BR2's have shot well also). I use a bushing -.002" from a loaded round for both rifles. I think you will short cut some load workup with that load. FWIW, they both shoot best at 2850 ish. Much slower or faster is not too good.....

 

[DHD]

Can I seat a 140 amax for a berger cut chamber? the OAL looks to be 2.692 so I would have to load them deep to 2.677 or shorter. Is this a pressure problem or will I run into other issue?

Masterblaster1, I'm not being too much of a smartbutt when I ask what is a Berger cut chamber 8)....

When I shot the Amax's they shot good jumping and jammed. Are you measuring the loaded rounds OAL? Did you use the Hornady OAL tools with the modified case to get that figure? Reason I ask is my number would have been something like 2.835" when my barrels were new (this was with a 140 Amax touching the rifling lightly). I had some 140 Amax's loaded for my son's rifle (when it had the Remington box mag) at 2.825". Even then they were off of the rifling about .010".

I do not think you will run into any pressure issues unless you go crazy with the powder trying to turn that Creedmoor into a 6.5×284. I doubt you'll be able to get much above 2850 before you start to lossen up primer pockets. I seem to remember the 140 Amax shot best for me at around 2775-2800. My figures were from 26" barrels.

 

[masterblaster1]

DHD the chamber is cut with a berger targert VLD throat whick is 30 thou shorter than the sammi reamer.

6.5 Creedmore "tactical" (BERGER VLD THROAT) SAAMI 1*30 0.169 HSS

 

[DHD]

DHD the chamber is cut with a berger targert VLD throat whick is 30 thou shorter than the sammi reamer.

6.5 Creedmore "tactical" (BERGER VLD THROAT) SAAMI 1*30 0.169 HSS

Got it. With what I know of the Creedmoor, that isn't a bad reamer at all. What barrel do you have for that rifle?

Here is my experience with the Creedmoor. Both of mine were cut with the same reamer (#1 and #2 with the new reamer) which was a PT&G .200" leade reamer. #1 is a Brux 1-8.5" 4 groove and #2 is an Obermeyer 1-8.4" 5R. #1 was a SOB until the 250ish round mark, then it has been the most consistent barrel I've had the pleasure to deal with. #2 started to shoot almost from the start, however #2's throat has jumped out THERE like crazy to where I am almost out of magazine space jamming the 140 Hybrid .012" (I use AICS mags with the spacer removed so it is a long OAL. This is also why I resorted to jumping the Hybrid). I will admit that I use more H4350 than "book max", but I am running the 140's @ 2825-2850 with no pressure signs and Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor cases last beyond 7 loads before I chunk them due to primer pockets loosening.

What is the point in my rambling? Not much other than the Creedmoor loves H4350 and a 140 grain bullet. Also, I believe that a 5R barrel will "burn a throat" more quickly than a standard 4 groove (or maybe an Obermeyer 5R will loose more throat/leade quicker). So your "Tactical" reamer seems like a very good idea to me and will give you plenty of growing room.

I'm not slamming an Obermeyer barrel as the 2 I've shot (1 is a Creedmoor and 2 is a 6.5x47L) are both very accurate and easy to clean, I just suspect that the radius of the lands are sharp and more prone to wear. I've noticed the same thing with a Bartlien 5R and a Satern 5R, both in 6.5 caliber. Who knows, maybe it's the 6.5, but I'm so heavily invested in the 6.5's that I don't care that I have to keep buying barrels.

The 5R thing above is just my observation with the barrels I've had dealings with. Your experience maybe 180 degrees from mine. I also don't plan to pull and throw away my 5R barrels as they are all very accurate. Just thought I would throw another cat in the ring so to speak.......

 

[boltman13]

I don't pay attention to OAL. I set up my 140 gr Amax to jump 0.015" to the rifling measured with a Stoney Point, now Hornady comprator. All my important measurments are off the ogive. My Hart barrel reamed with an original reamer bought thru Creedmoor Sports. Also save yourself a lot of misery and use H4350.

 

[bsumoba]

With a "standard" SAAMI reamer spec for a 6.5 creedmoor, which is what I beleive my tactical rifle is chambered in, I have three loads:

(All from a 26" barrel)

140gr A-Max - OAL of 2.810" - this is the recommended load on the box - going about 2720 fps. This is about 15-20K of the lands
140gr A-Max - OAL of 2.820" - H4350 going about 2800-2820 fps - this is about 20-25K off the lands
140gr Hybrid - OAL of approximately 2.86-2.87" (this is near AICS mag length) - H4350 going about 2820-2840 fps - this is around 40K off the lands if I remember correctly.

All of these loads are capable of 3-shot groups in the 1's, although 5-shot groups will average around the 3's @ 100 yards. 10 shot groups at 200 yards have produced consistent sub 1/2 MOA groups.

 

[TJAndriesen]

Sorry if I'm a bit slow here. I'm brand new to reloading. Using the Hornaday OAL tool I'm coming up with a length of 2.88 in my Weatherby Vanguard 2. This seems a lot longer then the lengths you gusy are discussing. Is that reasonable or am I doing something wrong??