Best LR Bullet/Cartridge for Coyotes

[fredo]

Steve, you might recall I had Mike Dtech build me a 1:8tw .223WSSM AR upper. At the time, I did some experimenting with accuracy testing & brass prep to wring the case out. In a brass munchin' AR, didn't make much tangible difference, but it did shoot rather well for a machine gun. Certainly well enough for field/hunting use. Alas, my state went beyond fascist, so I no longer own ARs of any type...
That said, if you did some judicious brass sorting & prep, I wouldn't doubt that you'd be able to light the chrono up to your satisfaction with a WSSM. I found F-C brass more easy to work with, as compared to the Winny stuff...

 

[daniel brothers]

Fredo... you explained my thoughts as well about the mighty 22-243 AI... I'm one of those 10 guys who had one built by that smith.

I can get 90 bergers up over 3400 fps... and 80 amaxes touching up next to 3600 fps... but settled on a average of 3558 fps.

I also had a 20-250AI built for shooting ONLY Berger 55's... that shoots at the 4000 fps area.... but is being kept down in the 3900's for a tad more accuracy. While fireforming brass I accidently found out that a full case of 4350 ran them at 3750... a tad slower, but the accuracy was STUPID GOOD... LOL.

I only had these built for one reason.... long range coyotes.

The ballistics charts show these mild recoil calibers to be winners.

Most coyotes killed by me and many of you guys are all shot within a average range of 200 yd. It takes nothing special at all for those chip shots...even 300 yds shots can be the norm with any factory round. Heck... my CZ 204 did all that with ease.

But if you want to reach out there, which is the topic and whole purpose of this thread... then you MUST HAVE a 400 yd laser... and then a good turret adjustable scope.... AND.... also... a BDC reticle that allows for quicker long range shots when there's not enough time to range and adjust turrets. But this is NOT mandatory because coyotes will usually stop out there and look around if they are shy about coming in.... or if they are not being burned my rapid rounds on their exits.

Calibers are only good for a certain dead hold-on range... you gotta have that as a first priority... then it's all up to the rangefinder... scope... and ballistic cards.... not to even mention shooter's skill at hunting ranges that he's not used too doing or even practices very much in fast hunting conditions.

What does it really matter if you adjust your turret up 2.4 moa instead of 2.0...it's still adjusting.... it's still the same amount of time used up before the trigger pull.

A 400 yd laser is BEST.... then learning your charts along with a quality BDC scope and rangefinder will CREATE WINNING SHOTS at longrange. Other than that... it's all guessing.

But then again....this is just my opinion... who am I .... just awhile back I couldn't even spell ballisstics calcuulater.....LOL.

 

[fredo]

I concur with you, Dan!
And I seem to recall KJ mentioning you about having a rifle built, glad you're pleased with it!!!

The 75Amax load I'm runnin' happens to jive beautifully with my scope/reticle.
I'm running a FFP 3-15x50 scope, with Gen2Mildot reticle. My turret is "zeroed" @ 100yds, and I hunt with 0.4mils pre-dialed on the scope. That puts my POI=POA @ 250yds, and I'm able to "hold on fur" out to just over 300yds...

The 1/2 mil hash in my reticle = 350yd POI, so that's a quick & easy correction, on the fly. (0.4mils pre-dialed + 0.5mil holdover = 0.9mils total correction)
450yd correction is the right on the first mil dot, another quick & easy holdover. (0.4 pre-dailed+ 1.0mil holdover)
525yds hold is the 1.5mil hash.

Therein lies the beauty of a FFP scope, those holds work at ANY magnification. Getting beyond that distance, and I'd be wanting an exact lasered range and want to be dialing a correction. But this is all kind of fun to prove out on steel plates up at the farm!

I enjoy these types of discussions! Thanks for sharing, everyone!

 

[daniel brothers]

What happened to this good thread.... surely my head running didn't kill it...LOL.

 

[370bc]

I have a kimber montana with a 1-12 douglas barrel that shoots the 88 burgers at 3100. The bc of the berger are .391. It seems miles away from the 105 berger at .547. Just like a gambler tho. One more turn! One more turn!
I would like to see a math wiz come up with formula that combines bullet speed, bc, rifle weight and recoil to come up with the sum total of the perfect yote rifle and caliber.
My kimber w/ bipod, scope, muzzle break & bedding comes in at 8.3 lbs. Weight of the rifle is everything to me. If I had to do it over again, I would not have so much added weight with the bedding. It seemed it added a pound or better to the rifle. I would go with a fast 6mm with a 1-8 for the heavies. I shot several with a 110 vmax @ 2900 and had run offs. More than my 243 w/ 55 bal tips @ 4000. I see the common sense now of the fast twist, high speed plus high bc w/o recoil.

 

[daniel brothers]

The OP wanted to know what was the best bullet/caliber for long range coyotes... and I'm still scratching my head as to what it might be... because after 400 yds... it's all up to ranging... and turret adjustments... or using BDC marks.

I was so bent on shooting long range coyotes last Nov when I spent that month chasing coyotes across the mid-west, that I would turn off my e-caller as soon as I spotted one. But I still didn't get any opportunities past the 409 yd dog that my 20-250 killed. And to be honest about it all... I wasn't truly ready for longer shots, because I didn't have my scope dialed into my long range drops... stupid me... but Lord Willing... I'll be ready for the next trip. I also learned another lesson.... DON"T try to work up two long range rifles at the same time... it made me crazy...LOL.

 

[370bc]

The OP wanted to know what was the best bullet/caliber for long range coyotes... and I'm still scratching my head as to what it might be... because after 400 yds... it's all up to ranging... and turret adjustments... or using BDC marks.

I was so bent on shooting long range coyotes last Nov when I spent that month chasing coyotes across the mid-west, that I would turn off my e-caller as soon as I spotted one. But I still didn't get any opportunities past the 409 yd dog that my 20-250 killed. And to be honest about it all... I wasn't truly ready for longer shots, because I didn't have my scope dialed into my long range drops... stupid me... but Lord Willing... I'll be ready for the next trip. I also learned another lesson.... DON"T try to work up two long range rifles at the same time... it made me crazy...LOL.
Trips to the range are precious, (I live 2o miles from my gun club) so it seems I am always testing at least 2 at a time. Final touches or checking zeros. You just reminded me that I have to put a scope on my 7 mag to zero in.
See, there is always something to do with more than one gun.
I think for the past 400 yard shots for me, I have to be in an established area with known coyote routes for a stable setup. Prone is my most accurate position, but sticks are there most comfortable.
When the season starts to wind down, I will be practicing shoot long range from sticks. There is a good thread at longrangehunting about shooting long range from sticks. Really good ingo.

 

[Sled2live]

Back in antiquity (late 1970 early 1980's) when fur prices pushed Montana pale coyotes well over $100. I hunted coyotes for my living. My go to rifle was a Sako HB 22-250 in a "custom" Roberts stock. The rifle shot bug holes at 100 yrds with the Nosler 60 gr solid base using a stout load of H414. Off sand bags or the pad or the window of my truck, I could regularly shoot 2-3 inch groups at 400 yards and a 8X scope. With a 250 yr zero this was an on body hold for coyotes to 400 yards.

After 5213 documented rounds my 400 yard groups had opened up to closer to 6 inches and I upgraded to a Rem 40X with a 22-250 AI barrel. Shooting the same 60 gr Nosler solid base I had a "hold on body" rifle out to 450 yards. That bullet was easy on pelts and extremely accurate.

I also had a 25-06 shooting 100 gr Noslers if I needed to really reach out there....but the recoil would knock me off the impact through the scope, so it was rarely used....even for those really long shots.

I also used a 6.5 Gibbs on occasion with 120 gr bullets. The weight of the rifle kept me on the target during recoil. That was an honest 600 yard rifle and a dream to shoot.

I am excited to try out a new to me 22-250 AI fast twist barrel I recently purchased from a member here. I am hoping to use those 75 gr AMAX bullets and do double duty for these TX whitetails with it.

As previous responders said...there are a bunch of great calibers to shoot nowadays and with fast twist barrels more common, great flexibility for dual purpose rifles.

Have fun with what ever you choose!

Scott

 

[fredo]

I would like to see a math wiz come up with formula that combines bullet speed, bc, rifle weight and recoil to come up with the sum total of the perfect yote rifle and caliber.

Don't hold your breath, that prolly isn't going to happen anytime soon!
Shooters hold too much of a personal connection to their rifles for there to be a "perfect" anything. Also, as in Life, everything is a compromise...

Increase performance = more powder
More powder = more recoil
More recoil = less desirable to shoot
Heavy rifle = less recoil
Light rifle = more recoil
Long barrel = less handy to carry
Short barrel = less performance

yadda yadda...

And then we must factor geography into the equation! Terrain and conditions vary across the country, which will invariably sway what a hunter deems ideal for their AO. So it becomes an even more personal choice for the shooter to prioritize what they want and what they can accept as a consequence of those decisions...

There are ways to mitigate consequences, its all part of the balancing act of features & performance that have been discussed in this thread so far. For instance, building a heavier rifle with help lessen felt recoil. Some would deem extra weight to be a consequence, like those who walk miles & miles to/from stands, or possibly those with physical limitations. While others may actually deem a more heavy rifle preferable, for the added stability it affords when holding on a small target, and the recoil absorption it allows...

Just illustrating how two hunters can view the same thing, from a completely different perspective!
That's why there will never be a "perfect" _________ rifle. But we still enjoy BS-ing about it!!!

One more thing, trying to shoot a coyote >400yds off stix is friggin' HARD. But 400yds from prone is literally, a chip shot. At least with a fast twist .22-243AI it is!
IMHO, if LR coyotes are your quarry, do yourself a favor a slap a bipod on your rifle and get prone!!! Maybe even carry a small beanbag type rear rest for use under the buttstock?
If a coyote is hung up far enough out there, you'll have time to roll off your sticks, "belly up", get a range, build your position and execute a shot. With a proven rifle built for the task, even a 500yd coyote should be a fairly high % shot. Just get that wind call right!!!
Anyhoo, If you ain't practicing from the prone for that eventuality (albeit a rare one), you're doing yourself a disservice by attempting to connect off stix at increased range...

For conversation

 

[Phil]

I would like to see a math wiz come up with formula that combines bullet speed, bc, rifle weight and recoil to come up with the sum total of the perfect yote rifle and caliber.

Don't hold your breath, that prolly isn't going to happen anytime soon!
Shooters hold too much of a personal connection to their rifles for there to be a "perfect" anything. Also, as in Life, everything is a compromise...

Increase performance = more powder
More powder = more recoil
More recoil = less desirable to shoot
Heavy rifle = less recoil
Light rifle = more recoil
Long barrel = less handy to carry
Short barrel = less performance

yadda yadda...

And then we must factor geography into the equation! Terrain and conditions vary across the country, which will invariably sway what a hunter deems ideal for their AO. So it becomes an even more personal choice for the shooter to prioritize what they want and what they can accept as a consequence of those decisions...

There are ways to mitigate consequences, its all part of the balancing act of features & performance that have been discussed in this thread so far. For instance, building a heavier rifle with help lessen felt recoil. Some would deem extra weight to be a consequence, like those who walk miles & miles to/from stands, or possibly those with physical limitations. While others may actually deem a more heavy rifle preferable, for the added stability it affords when holding on a small target, and the recoil absorption it allows...

Just illustrating how two hunters can view the same thing, from a completely different perspective!
That's why there will never be a "perfect" _________ rifle. But we still enjoy BS-ing about it!!!

One more thing, trying to shoot a coyote >400yds off stix is friggin' HARD. But 400yds from prone is literally, a chip shot. At least with a fast twist .22-243AI it is!
IMHO, if LR coyotes are your quarry, do yourself a favor a slap a bipod on your rifle and get prone!!! Maybe even carry a small beanbag type rear rest for use under the buttstock?
If a coyote is hung up far enough out there, you'll have time to roll off your sticks, "belly up", get a range, build your position and execute a shot. With a proven rifle built for the task, even a 500yd coyote should be a fairly high % shot. Just get that wind call right!!!
Anyhoo, If you ain't practicing from the prone for that eventuality (albeit a rare one), you're doing yourself a disservice by attempting to connect off stix at increased range...

For conversation

Do i hear an echo........

Sounds similar to a recent phone conversation..... ;D

 

[daniel brothers]

Hey OP... not trying to steal your thread...but the best caliber does tie in with a few other things....LOL.

IMHO.... bipods need to always be on the rifle if any type of long range shots are possible. I learned that one the hard way.

I found out for myself that steady shots are not the problem with the front end of the rifle as much as it is at the rear... by keeping my butt stock and arms steady... the whole rifle was steady... so below is my typical coyote setup... which does not have a bipod on it....but it did later.

I set in the chair backwards, which gives my arms a solid rest on the pipe across the chair's back.

I can be pretty steady out to 500 yds with it.... but the bipod is mandatory for longer ranges.

 

[370bc]

Hey Dan, What type of pipe did you use and how does it fit on the chair backrest? Thanks.

 

[daniel brothers]

I took the cloth back completely off.... then cut a piece of 3/4 pvc pipe with 90 elbows that fit over the chair post ends. When the chair is folded up for carrying... the rod is laying loose in between the legs, but the Velcro strap holds it all together which prevents it from unfolding while carrying. You might feel a little bit exposed, but your not really, especially if you sit next to a wood line. I've had dogs ignore me sitting next to fence post in the wide open. I quit the low profile turkey chair and bipods after using this system. But I now keep a bipod attached for the quick drop down shots....and extra long range.

And I wrap up everything with the leopard pattern wrap for injured horse's legs, from tractor supply.

 

[fredo]

Seat & stix work well enough, especially if you can get bone-bone (knees-elbows) contact. But that combo does have its limitations. I've been messing with my Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod to fashion a more stable way to shoot from the sitting position. Using a pistol grip ball head and QD gun clamp...

That .22-243AI weighs 11 lbs, and the unit is supporting the entire weight. To move on target, just squeeze the pistol grip with off-hand and aim as normal...
Looking forward to doing some more shooting off of this gizmo, and carrying it on stand. Sometimes its just not possible (or feasible) to get prone on stand due to terrain, vegetation, cactus, sandburrs, etc. Can already tell this tripod/ball head combo is more rock solid than two legged shootin' stix on those 300yd+ shots, so we'll see...

 

[titanxt]

I will give another vote for the .243WIN. I load mine with 70gr Sierra Blitzkings. Velocity is very good, seems to shoot flat, and I have taken prairie dogs with it out to the 800-yard range (which is close range for a lot of guys).

Andy

 

[sscoyote]

Never expected this thread to get so much mileage, dang glad though--great info from some fellow long-rangers. I'm into the longish range stuff so much that I'm starting to get into it on our yearly trips to the PI for airgunning frogs with, of all things, but laser rangefinders, ballistic reticles (and improvised ballistic reticles), turret apps, mounts, ballistics programs, and chronographs; along with some math skills sure helps the long-range shooting equation, no doubt.

Can't remember if I mentioned it earlier (side effects of 30 yrs. night shift probably), but my buddy uses a 243 AR-10, and every couple hours air density updated cell phone ballistics program along with turreted Leupold scopes and Varmint Hunter's reticle for all his long-range coyote sniping. The guy has made more 1st-shot kills on predators than anyone I've even heard of. But one of the big factors is our system. I HAVE A BRF! Therefore I'm ranging whilst he's getting setup, and it has proven to be a terrific team system. Although he has turreted a few predators at very long range he usually doesn't have time for it and applies his reticle to 500-600ish most often, and it's quite fascinating to see the system in action really. 87 V-Max has performed fantastically to those ranges and even further at 32-3300 velocities.

Of course my problem is I'm trying to apply the challenge of specialty pistols to the equation and that adds yet another set of variables to it. I have had pretty good luck out to 500ish with this XP-100 6.5 WSM/140 A-Max/Darrell Holland Leupold hybrid combination with this 450-yd. dog as an example--




...and now this Savage Super Striker/McGowen barreled 22-250/80 A-Max/Nightforce optic combo with variable ranges to 500 or so--


...I do still believe the 75-80 A-Max, maybe the 105 A-Max to maybe as big as the 6.5's may be good for what I'm looking for, to maybe as small as a 20 of some sort as many have mentioned. Always plenty of thinking to do. Thanks guys, once again!

...and I must say that one of the bigger factors in our long-range shooting success has been shortening the prep time for the shot, especially by using a BRF. Though it's hard to get over the cost factor, I know that this single change to our gear has made for faster shot execution than any other gizmo by far that I can think of, and therefore reward factor, IMO.

One thing's for sure. That extemely mobile 6" target has accounted for a lot of long-range pondering since the introduction of the laser rangefinder, and probably even before.

 

[people]

I am impressed with how well those handguns shoot. Very nice.

 

[spencerhenry]

i have killed coyotes out to 612 with a 223, 55gr v-max.

farthest was 612, but a couple in the 580's, plenty in the mid 400's. hit them in the rib cage and they are done!

working on a 22-250 AI cooper model 22 right now. hope to make it my 400 yard plus coyote rifle. slow twist barrel so i am sticking with the 55's.