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Best cleaning method for top accuracy?

Dud said:
As far as cleaning before carbon has a chance to harden, that sounds like some interesting chemistry. I was thinking of carbon like soot that's baked on at high temperature, not like goo that hardens as it cools. I'm going to have to research that and read powder MSDS'.
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It may be as simple as heat and time always being factors in chemical reactions...
 
Dud said:
I will be shooting slowly at 1,000 yards+, usually not in a competition situation.

I will do some load development and testing at 100 yards but similarly slow.

I usually clean between 50-100 rounds fired. I haven't waited for the accuracy to fall off yet but that's probably because I'm not a good enough shooter to notice a difference on a really accurate rifle.

As far as cleaning before carbon has a chance to harden, that sounds like some interesting chemistry. I was thinking of carbon like soot that's baked on at high temperature, not like goo that hardens as it cools. I'm going to have to research that and read powder MSDS'.
Click to expand...

Take an high mileage engine apart and inspect the combustion chamber. That carbon tends to get so hard it is impossible to remove, even with the harshest chemicals without also using a wire brush on a die grinder. Put ordinary carbon under extreme heat and pressure and what do you end up with? Diamond, the hardest known material on the planet. There's a hell of a lot of both heat and pressure in front of a rifle's chamber when fired. Not implying you'll make any diamonds, but do it often and long enough and that carbon might be nearly impossible to get out without doing damage. That's why I clean the chamber after each range session. Keep it under control and it is a non issue.
 
I do know a little about carbon deposits on the intake valves of direct injection engines.

It happens when oil vapor gets past the PCV and in to the intake, with no gasoline (solvent) to keep it from depositing on the hot valves. It doesn't seem to form deposits nearly as much on cooler parts like the intake ports.

Maybe the chemistry is different?
 
IMO there are several cleaning routines that work. Which one you choose may depend on several factors one being how much time you have. For instance, in the short range benchrest group game, shooters clean at matches, which makes using a foam cleaner impractical. Another issue is whether one is shortening barrel life by one or more details in a cleaning regimen. Bowing rods, inadequate rod guides, running a jag or brush out inches beyond the muzzle are examples. If I do not have to clean until the end of a session, Wipe Out is always a good option, but I have found that it may be necessary to do a little brushing afterward, depending on the number of shots and the powder that was loaded. There is a lot of difference in powders with respect to how much effort it takes to clean a barrel. If two powders can do the same job, with equal performance, generally I will choose the one that takes less effort to clean. There is also the matter of barrel quality. Cleaning typical factory barrels is a much different proposition than working with top grade lapped barrels. Generally one learns this stuff by trying different products and methods, and with the advent of commonly available, and recently, affordable bore scopes, we can actually know the condition of the insides of our barrels, instead of just guessing.
 
Exactly right on the way we learn but I could spend $1,000 on chemicals and a few months and not test everything.

I'm trying to narrow down what I try to stuff that works well for several other people.
 
BoydAllen said:
IMO there are several cleaning routines that work. Which one you choose may depend on several factors one being how much time you have. For instance, in the short range benchrest group game, shooters clean at matches, which makes using a foam cleaner impractical. Another issue is whether one is shortening barrel life by one or more details in a cleaning regimen. Bowing rods, inadequate rod guides, running a jag or brush out inches beyond the muzzle are examples. If I do not have to clean until the end of a session, Wipe Out is always a good option, but I have found that it may be necessary to do a little brushing afterward, depending on the number of shots and the powder that was loaded. There is a lot of difference in powders with respect to how much effort it takes to clean a barrel. If two powders can do the same job, with equal performance, generally I will choose the one that takes less effort to clean. There is also the matter of barrel quality. Cleaning typical factory barrels is a much different proposition than working with top grade lapped barrels. Generally one learns this stuff by trying different products and methods, and with the advent of commonly available, and recently, affordable bore scopes, we can actually know the condition of the insides of our barrels, instead of just guessing.
Click to expand...

Exactly and if you're using a dirty powder, it is best to get after the carbon right after shooting vs waiting till that barrel stops shooting well. Dirty powders will form that dreaded carbon ring much faster than a cleaner one. However not all of the black we see in there is actual carbon. Some of what we see on the patch is graphite from the powder. In a factory barreled hunting rig that coppers up badly, if you stopped trying to clean it down to the bare steel, it will copper a little less if we leave that graphite seasoning in there. Exposing all that dry rough steel will only strip copepr from bullet jackets that much more.
I'm a fan of the copper erasing powders like the CFE from Hodgdon and IMR Enduron . I use these where they give me good groups and find I need those ammonia based cleaners much less.
 
Tommie said:
I’ve used many “proven” cleaning methods. The one thing that I’ll never change is the final step: swab bore with colloidal graphite. That was a game changer.
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Do you use collloidal graphite only in barrels that have been broken in using it, or, can it be used as a final step after regular cleaning for all barrels ?

I see Grafoil as possibly another option.
 
Martin52 said:
Do you use collloidal graphite only in barrels that have been broken in using it, or, can it be used as a final step after regular cleaning for all barrels ?

I see Grafoil as possibly another option.
Click to expand...
I use Lock-Ease. Every barrel gets a patch of it after cleaning. IMO especially important to use it in a new, unfired barrel. I swear by the stuff.
 
I use Shooters Choice on a bronze brush to remove the carbon first. Then it is either Hoppes Bench Rest #9 or Bore Tech Copper Eliminator depending on how much copper I anticipate or how impatient I am. The copper remover goes on a patch with an aluminum rod tip. I will let the Hoppes sit for hours and the Bore Tech for 5 minutes. I finish with Pro Shot 1-Step Bore Solvent and dry patches.

If I see really hard carbon at the throat I will use some JB paste on a felt pellet.
 
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